Who's your NBA MVP? ***UPDATE: Poll Added***

[Revolver]

harden just got bottle.gif'd

 

[Breakitdown]

Gotta say I agree. With Durant out LeBrick is clearly the best player in the game, and "most valuable player" should always be synonymous with "best player" imo

If we go by this metric then True should be a 14+ time MVP LOL.

 

[faustian]

If we go by this metric then True should be a 14+ time MVP LOL.

Koobe has never once led the league in Win Shares, WS/48, PER, VORP, Offensive Rating, etc. In fact the only advanced stat GROAT has ever led the league in is Usage% lol

Kooby's career high WS/48 was .224 in 2006. That ranks as the 203rd best single-season WS/48 all-time LMAO

His career high 27.97 PER in 2006 is 54th all-time

You can make a decent case for Kooby as a borderline top-50 greatest player based on his longevity, but his peak prime was never top-50 all-time and he was obviously never the best player in the game at any point in time

 

[Sampsonsimpson]

So once Harden wins a Finals MVP these complaints will be invalid?

Guess we'll have to wait till June then.

Yeah, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

 

[Sampsonsimpson]

harden's main problem is shot selection, in that he purposely gets into the lane expecting to draw contact/get calls instead of trying to finish.

doesn't change the fact, that not a single defender outside of maybe (and that's maybe) kawhi can remotely even kinda stay in front of Harden. His ability to penetrate and get into the lane (past iso D, double teams, splitting zones, etc...), not too mention pass to open teammates, is frankly the best i've ever seen outside of 05-06 Wade.

he played much better in FIBA b/c he wasn't getting calls, and he changed his mentality to actually finish instead creating contact. Then again, it's easy to see why he doesn't change that mentality in the NBA when he gets gifted so many calls, well until the playoffs

And then when the playoffs come and he's not getting the calls, he takes the stupidest shots almost every play at the detriment of his team. It was ridiculous how much he was trying to be the hero of his team last playoffs against the Blazers and it wasn't working out at all. Did he have one good game in the playoffs last year?

 

[The One True]

lol apparently faust has no recollection of the 00s. i knew he was a drunkard, didn't know he was actually in the gutter LMAO!!!!

 

[Revolver]

I'm surprised you even remember the 00's, kaderp. Considering you've been on here stating that you didn't start watching the Lakers and basketball until 2008.

 

[Breakitdown]

Koobe has never once led the league in Win Shares, WS/48, PER, VORP, Offensive Rating, etc. In fact the only advanced stat GROAT has ever led the league in is Usage% lol

Good thing none of these stats mean anything on any level LMAO!

The only stats you need:

5x NBA champ
5x FMVP
81 pt game
4 straight 50 pt games
9 straight 40 pt games
62 in 3 quarters (outscored the future NBA CHAMPS)

9x first team all defense (t-1st place all time)
4x All star game MVP (t-1st place all time)


Just to name a few. LOL. I think it's safe to say we can throw your advanced "stats" out the window in light of these FACTS LMAO!

 

[The One True]

lol revo you've ADMITTED that you started watching hoops after the cp3 trade

 

[TD2]

fuss going overboard with pseudo stats again.

 

[faustian]

mj.gif @ citing Shaq's championships and FMVPs

Lakes' record from 99-04 when Kooby played and Shaq was out: 23-26 (.469%)

Lakes' record from 99-04 when Shaq played and Kooby was out: 30-10 (.750%)

 

[The One True]

fuss going overboard with pseudo stats again.

some advanced stats are intuitive and helpful, others (like ws) are completely arbitrary formulas that manipulate actual objective boxscore stats in an attempt to quantify a sport that requires actual viewing and analysis to comprehend. it's just a lazy way for people to project some kind of control and understanding onto the game through combining data into one tell-all superstat. so in the 95 yoffs when drexler had a 3.0 WS to hakeem's 2.8, is that supposed to mean drexler contributed more to their wins? LOL!

 

[faustian]

fuss going overboard with pseudo stats again.

Here's a pretty basic stat

Kooby 13,766 missed shots: 1st in NBA history

LMAO!!

 

[faustian]

some advanced stats are intuitive and helpful, others (like ws) are completely arbitrary formulas that manipulate actual objective boxscore stats in an attempt to quantify a sport that requires actual viewing and analysis to comprehend. it's just a lazy way for people to project some kind of control and understanding onto the game through combining data into one tell-all super-number. so in the 95 yoffs when drexler had a 3.0 WS to hakeem's 2.8, is that supposed to mean drexler contributed more to their wins? LOL!

A single postseason is a pretty small sample size to extrapolate much from. But the fact that Kooby for his entire career has been seriously underwhelming in all of the advanced stats across the board should tell you something. Empty boxscore stats are a real thing.

 

[The One True]

Here's a pretty basic stat

Kooby 13,766 missed shots: 1st in NBA history

LMAO!!

jordan missed 12,345 in his career. he led the league in missed FG's in 7 seasons. pretty sure if he played 19 seasons like true, he would have been far and away #1 all time on that list. but of course nobody is actually surprised that #1 offensive option players with high usage rates who play until they're 40 rack up a lot of missed FG's, nobody except for you i guess LMAO!!!

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Faust, i get what you're saying, but he's a pretty decent 3pt shooter, if you sag him too much constantly, he'll just chuck more 3s presumably. but yes, you described how to guard him pretty well, but in reality it's very rarely done. all the clips in the world don't negate the numbers he's putting up this year.

i noticed nobody tries to argue the effectiveness of his passing this year, i.e. leading the league in assited 3s. again, in today's game, that's kinda a big deal. the only reason i'm even arguing him is that team has nobody and they're in decent standing.

westbrook deserves it, but they're struggling. bern has kyrie playing great lately. steph has klay playing great all year. so on and so forth. Davis is a beast, but same shit as westbrook.

im telling you right now, harden will get the mvp. whether he deserves it or not, he's more effective overall than nash was, with even less of a supporting cast. and he plays more D than nash.

 

[faustian]

jordan missed 12,345 in his career. he led the league in missed FG's in 7 seasons. pretty sure if he played 19 seasons like true, he would have been far and away #1 all time on that list. but of course nobody is actually surprised that #1 offensive option players with high usage rates who play until they're 40 rack up a lot of missed FG's, nobody except for you i guess LMAO!!!

Well Jordan hasn't played 19 seasons like GROAT, yet Jordan has still managed to make more shots in his career than GROAT

Kooby is 1st all-time in missed shots, yet he isn't even top 5 in made shots

Beyond that, legit all-time greats like Jordan didn't get their volume scoring at the expense of their team

 

[Breakitdown]

mj.gif @ citing Shaq's championships and FMVPs

Lakes' record from 99-04 when Kooby played and Shaq was out: 23-26 (.469%)

Lakes' record from 99-04 when Shaq played and Kooby was out: 30-10 (.750%)

Fallacious comparison. Look no further than the dominance of true vs the real contenders of the day (kings, spurs) and see how Snaq's fat ass got CARRIED to multiple titles by the single greatest player in the history of sports LMAO!!!

The One True was decimating Duncan, Webber, Bibby, etc while Snaq ran over the Matt Geiger's of the world in the finals LMAO! The C on my rec league team could drop 40 and 25 on Matt fucking Geiger LOL!

 

[The One True]

A single postseason is a pretty small sample size to extrapolate anything from. But the fact that Kooby for his entire career has been seriously underwhelming in all of the advanced stats across the board should tell you something. Empty boxscore stats are a real thing.

how so? '95 is the post season which you yourself said (itt) that hakeem put a shitty team lacking any all-stars on his back and carried them to a ship. why shouldn't the WS's thoroughly reflect the reality which you garnered through actually watching the games live? over the course of 22 games, dream accordingly should have ran away with that stat. that is just one example of many where AS's portray a completely distorted perspective contrary to what everybody intuitively knows through watching

the thing with you and stats is, you're impulsively in favor of them when they support a preconceived notion or bias, but ignore or explain them away through 'context' when they don't. ws is a silly stat, putting the reasons i listed aside, what is the objective? to calculate how much a player contributes to games in which a particular team wins? speaking of winning, the one true has won 5 ships and has been the most important player for a majority of those series. btw not sure why you are so adamant on harden not being mvp when he is currently leading the league in your own stat

 

[faustian]

Faust, i get what you're saying, but he's a pretty decent 3pt shooter, if you sag him too much constantly, he'll just chuck more 3s presumably. but yes, you described how to guard him pretty well, but in reality it's very rarely done. all the clips in the world don't negate the numbers he's putting up this year.

i noticed nobody tries to argue the effectiveness of his passing this year, i.e. leading the league in assited 3s. again, in today's game, that's kinda a big deal. the only reason i'm even arguing him is that team has nobody and they're in decent standing.

westbrook deserves it, but they're struggling. bern has kyrie playing great lately. steph has klay playing great all year. so on and so forth. Davis is a beast, but same shit as westbrook.

im telling you right now, harden will get the mvp. whether he deserves it or not, he's more effective overall than nash was, with even less of a supporting cast. and he plays more D than nash.

Well yeah you can't argue against Harden's success this season. My whole thing though is that I don't think it's substantive or sustainable because it all hinges on whether the refs are facilitating his offense. If the refs keep it up, then good for Harden he'll have a chance to go down as one of the most efficient volume scorers in NBA history. But I wouldn't count on it. And even if he is getting calls, come playoffs teams have the necessary prep time to scout gimmicky scorers like Harden.