Who's the most important fighter in MMA history?

Elegant said:
Conor literally changed the entire culture and foundation of MMA

The way fighters promote themselves along with the way promotions advertise their product was literally all completely revolutionized and changed during/after Conor's run/time at the top

People will continue making movies/documentaries on Conor's legacy and discussing how he singlehandedly evolved the whole the sport of MMA to a level that was previously thought to be unattainable for a combat sport

It's why I don't understand how as an MMA fan you can dislike him, he arguably saved the sport and is the only reason it's still flourishing to the extent it is
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This stupid take again. You find that MMA in 2024 is better than MMA in 2014? And i am not talking about profits, and mean as a viewer.
 
Royce, and it's not even close.
He did two things that left an indelible mark. Royce essentially introduced the world to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which is, to this day, the most recognizable and (arguably?) the most important discipline of the sport. Of course, Rickson was the better practitioner, but that's sort of irrelevant, contextually.
Royce also demonstrated that a smaller man could beat a larger man, or a man who only trains in a singular discipline. Not only did this capture people's imaginations, but it eventually led to cross-training, because people HAD to learn BJJ.
We can spend all day arguing for the stars of the sport (Ronda, Conor, Brock, Chuck), the GOAT's (Silva, Aldo, Fedor, GSP, Jones, DJ, Khabib) but their marks are largely size and scope. Everyone know's Conor, but what did he actually do aside from attract eyeballs and attention? All of the great's are generally celebrated, but if they weren't the greats, there would be others.
If you've just recently gotten into MMA, or aren't a student of the game, he might seem irrelevant, or little more than a product of the time.
Make no mistake....
Royce is the reason people watch MMA. If anyone else had won those early UFC', I don't think MMA would have grown into the sport it became (or it would have been relegated to some outlaw freakshow, tough guy contests in countries like Brazil and Russia.)
 
Doctor Grudge said:
Picking Royce Gracie makes it seem like there is a disconnect or misunderstanding between what MMA is or why it is popular. If UFC 1 never happened the only difference is the #1 MMA league today would have a different name and slightly different history.

Some of Royce's opponents like Shamrock and Sakuraba are more important for MMA. And no, they wouldn't have needed the Gracie storyline to become popular, MMA was already becoming a thing in Japan, the UFC had nothing to do with that. Royce is not even the most important Gracie, it's likely Rickson.

McGregor has brought MMA to its biggest commercial heights. Not unlike Jordan or Woods. No, it doesn't matter that he isn't as good at the sport as those guys are at theirs. Takeda, Lesnar, GSP, and Ronda are all responsible for large expansions for MMA's popularity, more so than Royce Gracie was. Most people don't remember or even know, but Wanderlei Silva was a way bigger deal in Japan than Royce Gracie was, even when he was fighting Sakuraba.


The UFC of today and UFC 1 are basically two different entities. MMA existed without the UFC, and existed in a couple of different countries under different names. So I don't think Royce Gracie is quite the most important person (I'm assuming this is based off him winning the first couple UFC tournaments). The UFC was rather irrelevant during Royce's time.

If Royce had not fought (or any of the Gracies), the only difference is the narrative for UFC 1 would be different, or another no-holds bar tournament would have happened instead.

The UFC and Pride definitely could push an event behind Royce Gracie, but he wasn't that useful for expanding the market to non-MMA fans, which is kind of what makes someone important. Otherwise, what are we talking about? MMA is just entertainment.
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I do think theres something to that argument, the UFC under Dana has really hard sold the idea that the original UFC was by far the most important moment in MMA history. It was obviously very important BUT I think if you look to the late 90's then really it seemed like the UFC was destined to be a bit of a fad were as really to me it looks like the Japanese MMA scene grew in a rather more organic fashion.

As you say I thin there's a case that had say the UFC gone bust in the mid 90's and the name been tied up it would just have been Dana and Zuffa building up another org, it might have been a bit harder without the UFC name but I think its definitely possible. Its notable that Dana took the Fertittas to the 2000 GP final to convince them to buy the UFC basically showing them what MMA could be.

I think a big issue with Saku wasn't just that he was beating the Gracies, he was doing so as a "Pro Wrestler" who had the kind of flair audiences associated with that, MMA basically usurped Japanese Pro Wrestling's audience to a massive degree due to that.
 
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Doctor Grudge said:
Picking Royce Gracie makes it seem like there is a disconnect or misunderstanding between what MMA is or why it is popular. If UFC 1 never happened the only difference is the #1 MMA league today would have a different name and slightly different history.

Some of Royce's opponents like Shamrock and Sakuraba are more important for MMA. And no, they wouldn't have needed the Gracie storyline to become popular, MMA was already becoming a thing in Japan, the UFC had nothing to do with that. Royce is not even the most important Gracie, it's likely Rickson.

McGregor has brought MMA to its biggest commercial heights. Not unlike Jordan or Woods. No, it doesn't matter that he isn't as good at the sport as those guys are at theirs. Takeda, Lesnar, GSP, and Ronda are all responsible for large expansions for MMA's popularity, more so than Royce Gracie was. Most people don't remember or even know, but Wanderlei Silva was a way bigger deal in Japan than Royce Gracie was, even when he was fighting Sakuraba.



The UFC of today and UFC 1 are basically two different entities. MMA existed without the UFC, and existed in a couple of different countries under different names. So I don't think Royce Gracie is quite the most important person (I'm assuming this is based off him winning the first couple UFC tournaments). The UFC was rather irrelevant during Royce's time.

If Royce had not fought (or any of the Gracies), the only difference is the narrative for UFC 1 would be different, or another no-holds bar tournament would have happened instead.

The UFC and Pride definitely could push an event behind Royce Gracie, but he wasn't that useful for expanding the market to non-MMA fans, which is kind of what makes someone important. Otherwise, what are we talking about? MMA is just entertainment.
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The statement that UFC was irrelevant during Royce’s time is a bit weird. What was more relevant to the western audience than the UFC during Royce‘s time?
 
Master Bruce Lee🐉
/thread
(Surprised it took this long)
 
Doctor Grudge said:
Royce is not even the most important Gracie, it's likely Rickson.
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Hélio Gracie is probably the most important one.

Anyway, hard to not say Royce. Royce was basically a product of Rorion, who wanted to show to the world how superior their bjj was. He didn't realized he was making a sport (that was already being develop in places like Japan and Brazil) so popular.

I'd name Royce the most important guy for being the key to this popularity boost.
Still, there are a lot of notable names mentioned here that deserves a mention.
 
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

-definitely either Royce Gracie or Kenny Florian


But OP is a loaded question because the term "MMA" was coined in 1993 during a review of UFC 1. And it's indisputable that UFC 1 and its successor UFC events popularized mixed rules fighting in the west. Because Royce was the original UFC poster boy, it's him by default. That he wasn't the best or most accomplished Gracie is irrelevant - he was in the right place at the right time. MMA becoming more popular worldwide is why the talent pool is as deep as it is today.

But of course he wouldn't have been there had Helio and Whorian not been who they were. And even if we're only talking BJJ, Maeda trained other lineages like Fadha and others. Country ass whoopings by various names have been happening in every region for thousands of years throughout human history.
 
moreorless87 said:
I do think theres something to that argument, the UFC under Dana has really hard sold the idea that the original UFC was by far the most important moment in MMA history. It was obviously very important BUT I think if you look to the late 90's then really it seemed like the UFC was destined to be a bit of a fad were as really to me it looks like the Japanese MMA scene grew in a rather more organic fashion.

As you say I thin there's a case that had say the UFC gone bust in the mid 90's and the name been tied up it would just have been Dana and Zuffa building up another org, it might have been a bit harder without the UFC name but I think its definitely possible. Its notable that Dana took the Fertittas to the 2000 GP final to convince them to buy the UFC basically showing them what MMA could be.

I think a big issue with Saku wasn't just that he was beating the Gracies, he was doing so as a "Pro Wrestler" who had the kind of flair audiences associated with that, MMA basically usurped Japanese Pro Wrestling's audience to a massive degree due to that.
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Yeah but I would argue Takada was the reason Japanese pro wrestling fans were watching PRIDE in the first place.

Also the shoot style stuff he was doing in UWFi played a part too.
 
I'm going with Iceman on this. Royce did prove to beat bigger men on the ground, but Chuck did a really good job on getting the ball rolling for the casual eye. There will always be more casuals than hardcores. The casuals decide what is popular. My opinion
 
It is probably Chuck. You can argue Forrest also helped make the sport popular.

Royce is good but not many people watched the original UFCs. I remember talking to some casual and he was telling me about the "Garcia" brothers in the early UFC.
 
Джон Бонс Джонс <JonesDXSuckIt> <JonesLaugh>
 
Its Royce
He redefined the whole pancrase, vale tudo game etc
Royce, Bas, Shamrocks, Mar Kerr, Severn
The whole lot were pivotal
 
Not on the list but a shout-out to Jose Aldo.

Without him I really believe it would have been less likely that the WEC purchase would have included weight classes under 155 actually performing in the UFC.

He had a big impact on how the lower weight classes were presented to the world.
 
Hellowhosthat said:
Yeah but I would argue Takada was the reason Japanese pro wrestling fans were watching PRIDE in the first place.

Also the shoot style stuff he was doing in UWFi played a part too.
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Takada first brought the attention I'd agree but I think it would likely have been a bit of a flash in the pan with just him given his lack of sucess.
 
moreorless87 said:
Takada first brought the attention I'd agree but I think it would likely have been a bit of a flash in the pan with just him given his lack of sucess.
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Agreed but that's why he's the most important imo, he brings the eyes in the first place and then others keep the eyes but without the eyes being there there's no eyes to keep
 
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