Who was better on the ground - GSP or Anderson Silva?

[nately]

Anderson. Iron chin, better submissions, more damage, even from the bottom.

GSP is Fedor 2.0 in terms of nuthuggers. Guy lost to Johny Hendricks ffs.

 

[B ville Famous]

GSP isn't even active. hmmm, I wonder why.

You sure?

 

[Intellidamus]

he got handled in multiple training sessions by guys who never even fought a single pro fight and they were smaller than him. they showed gsp how serious the ped issue is. how enhanced a human can get. No one has access to the things they were on but it made gsp think it is only inevitable with time. hes seen a lot of things most people haven't. i hope they talk about all this stuff in a documentary in the future its going to be great. no sense of telling a source when i can't prove it because no one will believe me but take it for what you will.

How did you hear about this?

 

[Iron Nick]

Silva was offensively more lethal on the ground, whereas St-Pierre had better top control and defense.

Criticisms about the ground game of each figher​

• St-Pierre (6-1 in submissions) got submitted by a guy who is 14-4 in subs and who he has submitted himself later on in his career and had trouble submitting Dan Hardy who's 3-4 in submissions.

• Silva (3-2 in submissions) got submitted by guys who are 4-1 and 1-1 in submissions and struggled severely against Chael Sonnen who is 4-9 in subs.

Praise about the ground game of each fighter
​

• St-Pierre has a good submission game, great top control and control in general and is pretty much impossible to hold down for a sustained period of time, if at all.
  
• St-Pierre has submission wins over guys who have the following submission record:

> 2-2 (Bisping, submitted before only by Rockhold who's 8-0)
> 14-4 (Matt Hughes)
> 4-4 (Frank Trigg)
> 9-5 (Dave Strasser)
> 5-16 (Pete Spratt)
> 3-3 (Justin Loaf)

• Silva has an offensively solid ground game and is dangerous with submissions of his back.
  
• Silva has submission wins over guys who have the following submission record:

> 4-9 (Chael Sonnen)
> 1-4 (Dan Henderson)
> 1-1 (Raimundo Pinheiro)

 

[B ville Famous]

The cherry pick doesn't count.

If you knew anything, you'd know.

Hey dummy, how do you “cherry pick” (dumb word) a champion? Did GSP somehow help Bisping to win the belt?

 

[OmegaRugal]

Anderson is more dangerous with subs off of his back, but GSP is better everywhere else. GSP is one of the best MMA grapplers we've seen.

That explains GSP's lack of finishes from the top despite landing so many takedowns ...

...wait that doesn't make sense.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Lutter didn't make weight for that fight, so it wasn't actually a title defense.

That makes it even more impressive.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Silva was more dangerous but GSP was better att controlling position and getting the fight to the ground at will. I think this should be the general consensus. Big Anderson Silva fan since forever but he did look vulnerable on the ground at times although his finishing ability with gnp and submissions was stellar.

Taking the fight to the ground isn't part of ground game.

Silva could beat you off his back. GSP can't.

Silva destroys you 10 out of 10 times on top. GSP will hold you there sure... but he won't do much damage nor sub you.

 

[ticho123]

Taking the fight to the ground isn't part of ground game(...)

Agree to disagree. In MMA this is absolutely part of your overall ground game ranking. Compare Maia at MW to Maia at WW for example.

And as I said I've been a Silva boy since I saw him demolish Leben on UFC unleashed back in -08 so I think I'm fairly unbiased towards that angle

 

[OmegaRugal]

Once he got on top you were not getting out till he finished you or the round ended

Just until the round ended ...

 

[OmegaRugal]

Agree to disagree. In MMA this is absolutely part of your overall ground game ranking. Compare Maia at MW to Maia at WW for example.

And as I said I've been a Silva boy since I saw him demolish Leben on UFC unleashed back in -08 so I think I'm fairly unbiased towards that angle

Then Silva still wins ... because he would punch or kick or knee or elbow you to the floor and then finish you on the floor if you want to play it that way.

GSP needs 3 guys to tell him he won ... like a beauty pageant contestant.
Silva needs the ref to stop him before killing his opponent.

 

[ticho123]

Then Silva still wins ... because he would punch or kick or knee or elbow you to the floor and then finish you on the floor if you want to play it that way.

GSP needs 3 guys to tell him he won ... like a beauty pageant contestant.
Silva needs the ref to stop him before killing his opponent.

If there were no rounds in MMA, which GSP fight do you think he would lose on time except the Hendricks fight? In all his decisions the no-round fight wound end with his opponent dead. In this time of social media cancer and talker/fighters give credit where it's due. GSP dominated everyone in his division and his ground game was stable as fuck, which is what this thread's about.

 

[Noraaq]

GSP has great top control, timing and blast double. His grappling and submission game as a whole is pretty overrated. Hes spent the most time on the ground and has barely any finishes there

 

[OmegaRugal]

GSP has great top control, timing and blast double. His grappling and submission game as a whole is pretty overrated. Hes spent the most time on the ground and has barely any finishes there

Exactly ... morons can't understand the difference between that and a ground game.

GSP spent all that time ON TOP of his opponents and barely has any finishes against the same opponents other people finish all the time.

 

[ticho123]

Diaz and Shields.

GSP was gassing for the first time ever vs Diaz and Diaz starting tagging GSP over and over again in the championship rounds without him slowing down. Give Diaz 2 more rounds, GSP would have been KO'd.

Shield beat GSP the last two rounds of their fight and it was going his way so another possible lost.

So three more loses (Hendricks included) to add to his other two loses in your "No rounds scenario".

Didn't work out how you thought huh?

No I'm gonna have to re-watch those. I'll get back to you when I have. Regardless to get back to my original point, have you anything to say regarding the ability to control where the fight takes place not counting towards ground game?

 

[OmegaRugal]

No I'm gonna have to re-watch those. I'll get back to you when I have. Regardless to get back to my original point, have you anything to say regarding the ability to control where the fight takes place not counting towards ground game?

He is amazing at control but the fact he couldn't finish them tells you that his top game is limited to control.

Think of it this way ... if Silva could land as many takedowns as GSP did vs Koscheck or Fitch or Hardy .... ie put Silva in that first initial takedown position on top of these opponents ...

... do you think .... any of them make it to the 5th round?

They all get KO'd or sub'd in high light fashion by Silva on the ground.

Just because Silva is more dangerous than GSP while on top doesn't mean GSP is bad on top. Clearly he was very effective but just not as dangerous as Silva from the top position nor was GSP a threat from the bottom position though he rarely was seen in this position.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Did Anderson ever even go for a takedown?

Anderson had some of the best TDs in the game, he would simply touch their chin and they go down.

 

[ticho123]

He is amazing at control but the fact he couldn't finish them tells you that his top game is limited to control.

Think of it this way ... if Silva could land as many takedowns as GSP did vs Koscheck or Fitch or Hardy .... ie put Silva in that first initial takedown position on top of these opponents ...

... do you think .... any of them make it to the 5th round?

They all get KO'd or sub'd in high light fashion by Silva on the ground.

Just because Silva is more dangerous than GSP while on top doesn't mean GSP is bad on top. Clearly he was very effective but just not as dangerous as Silva from the top position nor was GSP a threat from the bottom position though he rarely was seen in this position.

And that's just my point (as a huge AS fan). Silva couldn't land takedowns like GSP because he didn't have the wrestling ability of GSP. Wrestling ability MUST be considered along with grappling skills. So many skilled grapplers who simply couldn't take their opponent down and got outboxed.

 

[r-harper-1]

he got handled in multiple training sessions by guys who never even fought a single pro fight and they were smaller than him. they showed gsp how serious the ped issue is. how enhanced a human can get. No one has access to the things they were on but it made gsp think it is only inevitable with time. hes seen a lot of things most people haven't. i hope they talk about all this stuff in a documentary in the future its going to be great. no sense of telling a source when i can't prove it because no one will believe me but take it for what you will.

I’ll take it for the load of shit it is

 

[Intellidamus]

And that's just my point (as a huge AS fan). Silva couldn't land takedowns like GSP because he didn't have the wrestling ability of GSP. Wrestling ability MUST be considered along with grappling skills. So many skilled grapplers who simply couldn't take their opponent down and got outboxed.

You can’t apply your craft if you can’t put them in a position to.