Who is the least skilled male UFC Champion of all time ?

He wasnt UFC champion when he looked like that. You couldnt say that Tim was an unskilled striker. He was certainly too big to really be able to do much on the ground, but on the feet, he could fight, if he got his jab going.
Exactly. Tim Sylvia did not go 23-2 and capture the UFC HW Championship twice by being unskilled

Timmeh had a blueprint that was incredibly hard to beat- he was big and strong, and knew how to use his size. 6"8 265 HW fighter in his prime... tough matchup for anyone.

Timmeh even made Frank Mir look small.
 
That was some pro wrestling level shit what they did with his height. They said he was like 6-5 when he was about 6-2. Like for years when they used to say that Hulk Hogan was 6-7 and Andre the Giant was 7-4..
You calling Pro Wrestling a liar?

<3>
 
And then Fedor destroyed two UFC HW champs back to back, and both top ranked HWs in 2008 and 2009.

WTF point are you trying to make?
Feel free to point out a HW who has a better streak than Fedor, or who had more ranked wins, or who should have been ranked over him.

The absolute irony of you defending Tim yet crying like some insecure Dana White sockpuppet about Fedor's career.



The only crying I see here is by you, over some perceived UFC slight. Why would Pride fanboys cry about Randleman? He was a UFC champ, not a PRIDE champ.

Stop projecting your insecurity.

Brock if he was Randleman's size would probably be even less succesfull.
Uhhh... Pride fanboys would be upset because Randleman's career is far more associated with his time there than it is in the UFC? He was absolutely awful in the UFC (belt or not hence the point of this thread) and no one gives a crap about any of his fights there except pointing out the ridiculous "losing from top position" fight against Bas.

Also, the point is that Fedor fans love to rip on all of the UFC HWs as if they were never any good and yet his own credibility strongly depends on them being considered top guys. If Arlovski and Tim are considered "washed up" fighters because both fell off significantly right after he beat them, then Fedor went 5+ years without fighting a top contender? Unless you're seriously going to make an argument for Brett Rogers which would surely give everyone here some entertainment.

Fedor has some nice wins but he is more myth than substance as even in his prime, he was NEVER consistently facing top competition. He always had to have cans brought in for him, he always had to fight in organizations with questionable drug testing/known corruption, and his performances fall off a cliff 90% of the time he fights in the US. Gee, I wonder why that is??

Fedor was a better fighter than Tim... but he was nowhere near as good as the carefully crafted mystique leads people to believe.

Also, what the hell are you even talking about with your "If Brock changed size" hypothetical BS? Are you on crack? Brock's size didn't help him when he was on his back getting wailed on by Shane Carwin... he won by having better cardio and using a submission aka skills. Randleman has never beat a wrestler before and never submitted anyone... ask your kindergarten teacher what that means :eek:

Brock's size sure didn't help him against Mir the 1st time. It's almost like he somehow got better and improved by the time of the rematch... what a mystery! :eek:

Stop posting and go pump some gas, man... I'm sure you have a line up by now.
 
Uhhh... Pride fanboys would be upset because Randleman's career is far more associated with his time there than it is in the UFC? He was absolutely awful in the UFC (belt or not hence the point of this thread) and no one gives a crap about any of his fights there except pointing out the ridiculous "losing from top position" fight against Bas.
Lmao. Your posting and general UFC insecurity makes responding a total waste of time, but for the last time I will indulge myself. Your posts are sub 80 level IQ.

1. I don't see any PRIDE fanboys crying about Randleman, instead you built up a strawman to cry about PRIDE and project your UFC inferiority complex. Support fighters, not orgs you dweeb. HW was better back then than ever since, and despite the fighters being split they all ended up fighting each other one way or another anyways.

2. Randleman was able to be the best in the UFC. Never was in PRIDE. That simple, no amount of crying that you do about it.
If Randleman was "awful in the UFC" I guess it says a lot about the level of competition there at the time.

no one gives a crap about any of his fights there except pointing out the ridiculous "losing from top position" fight against Bas.
Well he beat Bas (or should have) and Rizzo, both top HWs. That's BTW not far from how many "top wins" Bork has.
Also, the point is that Fedor fans love to rip on all of the UFC HWs as if they were never any good and yet his own credibility strongly depends on them being considered top guys. If Arlovski and Tim are considered "washed up" fighters because both fell off significantly right after he beat them, then Fedor went 5+ years without fighting a top contender? Unless you're seriously going to make an argument for Brett Rogers which would surely give everyone here some entertainment.
More strawman nonsense. Fedor fans are not morons like you, so they fully understand shitting on the guys Fedor beat is moronic. On the contrary, its always UFC dweebs like you trying to usually put those guys down....which is why your crying here makes no sense. You are (for once, rightfully) stating Tim and AA were good, top fighters (and they were) then proceed to cry about PRIDe guys who beat them. Turn your brain on.
Also, Fedor went 5+ years without fighting a top contender? LOL! When? You really going to bring up the end of Fedor's career? Bahahahahah. Retarded and zero relevance.
Tim and AA got washed up right before Fedor did (incidentally, after he destroyed them), when it became clear they were shadows of their former selves.

Brett KOed AA btw, which by your "logic" makes him a top guy. Which he was. That is how rankings go little one.

Fedor has some nice wins but he is more myth than substance as even in his prime, he was NEVER consistently facing top competition.
That's fucking retarded lmao. Fedor has more top wins than any contemporary HW, save maybe Nog who....well....he destroyed twice.
Fedor faced more top competition in his streak than ANY contemporary UFC HW. Or for that matter, any UFC HW since. Not in terms of relevant competiton.

Fighting cans makes no difference as long as you put the work in around them. Which Fedor did, and no amount of historical revisionism BS by you will change that.



he always had to fight in organizations with questionable drug testing/known corruption
LOLOL as opposed to the contermpory UFC? Are you daft? No need to answer, the answer to that question is already clear.
UFC drug testing when Fedor fought = utter joke. Might as well not exist.

and his performances fall off a cliff 90% of the time he fights in the US. Gee, I wonder why that is??
More made up drivel. Fedor came to the US at the end of his career, and still won for 4 years after his first US based fight.
WTF is your point, he eventually lost lol? Good one, so basically every single UFC contemporary of his, especially when they had a similar number of years/fights in the game.

Fedor was a better fighter than Tim... but he was nowhere near as good as the carefully crafted mystique leads people to believe.
Fedor's mystique is on him having the best (non cheating) streak in the sport, and beating, typically in dominantly fashion every single ranked fighter he was faced with for 10 years.
That, not whatever made up butthurt mirage you conjured up.

Randleman has never beat a wrestler before and never submitted anyone
But he did knock out CC, which is a better standup win than anything Brock has done.
He also stayed in the sport for longer than the 8 fights Brock did, in which he looked like shit in 50% of them.

Yeah, such skills, definitly not size and roids.

Also, the absolutely joke of you crying about shady orgs and defending Brock, who literally was able to fight given UFC/USADA corruption.


No need to reply, I don't give a fuck about further discussion with you.
 
Do you actually know about him?

You could very well pick Miletich before Menne, since Dave actually did much better than Pat vs Pele Landi or Newton in their primes, among many other great wins.

Something tells me you guys go by perceived name value rather than actual knowledge
I said what I said
 
i just think people overrate his grappling AND his striking. and i never said he ducked anyone. the question is simply "who is the least skilled UFC champion" and i think it is him. i already stated my reasons. i get it's not his fault that there isn't any wrestlers but is it my fault that there isn't any wrestlers either? i'm simply answering the question asked and you assumed i didn't like Pereira or that i think he's ducking wrestlers. the other thing is, if there WERE wrestlers, he most likely wouldn't be champ, so he wouldn't even be in this discussion.

no, i never have ever posted he's ducking wrestlers because like you said, i know there isn't any at LHW. not even Ankalaev. i also don't think Ankalaev is going to beat him, even if he does wrestle.

besides, why are people taking it negatively? isn't it impressive that he became a 2 division UFC champion with such a limited skill set?

it's not like i said he sucks, i just said his grappling looked terrible but that's just 1 aspect of MMA obviously he's a pretty good striker, and yeah he can grapple with other kickboxers, but that's not a level of ability that is impressive. then my other criticism is people are rating his striking god tier, when Khalil Rountree just gave him the fight of his life and Adesanya had KO'd him, but you hear nobody rating Adesanya or Khalil Rountree as some striking god until AFTER they fought him.

i'm more criticizing people's perception of him than i am actually criticizing him. he is what he is, a guy who had the right story with the right guy in a time where UFC's bigger weight classes are practically barren of grapplers. it's everyone else who builds him up to something he's not. then when i point out the flaws, everyone starts pearl clutching like i just said some crazy shit.

i don't see what's controversial here, everything i said about Pereira can basically be applied to Adesanya, except he has challenged actual wrestlers on his come up.

Joaquin Buckley shares my basic opinion on Pereira too.

I mean hia striking isn't elite now because he got koed once by the 2nd beat mw champ ever? And rocked once by a mid level guy? That's that bad to you? Tons of guys get finished by lower level opponent in upsets, much less just briefly stunned. His striking is good enough that nobody can stand and trade with him, in a division full of strikers. That's pretty elite.

I don't see how it becomes less elite because we could sit and hypothetically design a fighter to beat him. You can do that to any champ.
 
It was actually Steve Jennum.

Winning the title over Harold Howard. The second fight is against a legit boxer actually. Not a top contender, but journeyman pro.


This is probably a tourney title I wanna only count actual defendable titles

Probably Mene or Miletich ir what their name was. Miletić, is the other guy Dave Mene ? Simply cause it was early in MMA.

Jamahal is a killer you just hate him. However his title is a bit paper due to circumstances.

Tim Sylvia really knew how to use his fat behemoth size. He is decently skilled.
 
It has to take some serious skill for a skinny Brazilian to submit a Roided-Out Shamrock.
And he couldn't do it again like 18 months later when Ken, without even training in BJJ, had enough knowledge to prevent it.

The first fight was the equivalent of a guy who had been playing tennis since he was in diapers (how the Gracies described themselves) vs. a guy who had been playing for 1 year.
 
It was actually Steve Jennum.

Winning the title over Harold Howard. The second fight is against a legit boxer actually. Not a top contender, but journeyman pro.


This only makes sense if the skill is relative to the era. Like most fighters back then, Jennum had a full-time job and trained at a "ninja" school but picked up some nice grappling considering it was 1994. He beat a much bigger Howard then tossed a full-sized, prime, likely roided boxer to the ground and got the first arm bar submission in the UFC.

Jennum compared to other fighters' skill level in 1994 >>>> Hill compared to other guys in 2024.
 
Forrest won the belt standing and had a impressive submission win right before so idk.
Submitted a BJJ black belt in Shogun and stood 5 rounds with prime Rampage, surviving an early scare and landing a ton of leg kicks. If that's "zero threat" than I'm not sure what criteria the guy you were responding to was using...besides bias.
 
This only makes sense if the skill is relative to the era. Like most fighters back then, Jennum had a full-time job and trained at a "ninja" school but picked up some nice grappling considering it was 1994. He beat a much bigger Howard then tossed a full-sized, prime, likely roided boxer to the ground and got the first arm bar submission in the UFC.

Jennum compared to other fighters' skill level in 1994 >>>> Hill compared to other guys in 2024.
It was actually more that Jennum's skills matched up better in MMA. I'm sure Bowen had far more overall skill as a fighter; he actually did it for a career. He just didn't have the cross training to enable him to use his boxing in MMA (and probably was the far better athlete and would have beat up Jennum if he had).

Both Howard and Bowen were pure strikers with no cross training. Any of the early guys with real grappling skill could beat Jennum (and also some like Kimo that didn't really have good grappling). He lost to Tank Abbot in the first round, then lost to Ruas and eventually Jason Godsey. Jennum also wouldn't have done well overseas where there were more fighters in Pancrase or Rings that grappled and would have beaten him around that time.

That event had injuries that enabled Jennum to win.

In any case, I was talking about the worst champion overall, not relative to other time periods because that's an apples and oranges conversation.
 
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people aren't going to like this, but Pereira. from the little i've seen, his grappling sucks balls. i don't think there's ever been a male UFC champion who looked as lost on the ground as Pereira did. sure, he's knocked out fair amount of UFC champions, but the key here is he knocked them out. he's fightng kickboxing matches in MMA, how much skill does he need when the guys just play his game anyway? he's supposed to be the striking God and nearly got wrecked by Khalil "i got folded by 1 elbow from Johny Walker" Rountree.

0/10
 
Jan Blachowicz - Dude had the "legendary Polish Power" and not a lot more. Didn't he lose his title to a can opener?
 
This only makes sense if the skill is relative to the era. Like most fighters back then, Jennum had a full-time job and trained at a "ninja" school but picked up some nice grappling considering it was 1994. He beat a much bigger Howard then tossed a full-sized, prime, likely roided boxer to the ground and got the first arm bar submission in the UFC.

Jennum compared to other fighters' skill level in 1994 >>>> Hill compared to other guys in 2024.

Relative to the era, I dont think Jennum skill was great by the standards of the best in UFC at the time, in the vale-tudo scene, Japanese hybrid wrestling, or the Samboist who were fighting in Japan neither.

Jennum is a good pick for least skilled champion. I'd also pick Miletich instead of Menne
 
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