Who’s the best or most well rounded athlete…

[No Skill Gap]

I hate picking on you but I can't help it.
Never heard of an endurance sport? The major professional leagues in North America aren't the only sports out there.

Well my point was pretty obvious. If you think 120lb concentration camp looking dudes who can speed walk 1-5 miles better than anyone else in the world are the "best athletes" then that's your opinion. I don't though.

Not even sure what your insinuation is, if you want to say soccer than just say soccer. I still disagree with that but at least soccer does have some top tier athletes and good athletes in general. Just not even close to the NFL/NBA. I feel like you're just being a hipster and hating on the US/NA because it's "cool" to do so. Clearly the best athletes are here. Not sure what endurance sports you are even referring to considering NA competes in all of them anyway to my knowledge, pretty good at swimming and cycling and shit. It's just niche. It's the opposite end of powerlifting basically, and again personally I respect the carryover from being retarded level strong vs god tier super slow pace endurance, neither are the answer to what makes the best athlete. Both are components of it.

 

[vision1]

Well my point was pretty obvious. If you think 120lb concentration camp looking dudes who can speed walk 1-5 miles better than anyone else in the world are the "best athletes" then that's your opinion. I don't though.

Not even sure what your insinuation is, if you want to say soccer than just say soccer. I still disagree with that but at least soccer does have some top tier athletes and good athletes in general. Just not even close to the NFL/NBA. I feel like you're just being a hipster and hating on the US/NA because it's "cool" to do so. Clearly the best athletes are here. Not sure what endurance sports you are even referring to considering NA competes in all of them anyway to my knowledge, pretty good at swimming and cycling and shit. It's just niche. It's the opposite end of powerlifting basically, and again personally I respect the carryover from being retarded level strong vs god tier super slow pace endurance, neither are the answer to what makes the best athlete. Both are components of it.

They are the best at their sport, which is an athletic endeavor, making them best athletes. Whether or not you’re impressed doesn’t matter.

It’s not cool to hate on Americans but you check all the boxes for the stereotypes. Seems like you live in a bubble. The best soccer players in the world don’t come close in athleticism to the NFL or NBA? That’s such an absurd statement, it’s idiotic. The player pool in soccer is much larger than probably all of American football and basketball combined. It’s not like Americans have a superior race of humans. Of course the best athletes in soccer are some of the best in the world. You’re most impressed by the combination of big muscles and speed, fine but don’t let that cloud your judgement.

 

[No Skill Gap]

They are the best at their sport, which is an athletic endeavor, making them best athletes. Whether or not you’re impressed doesn’t matter.

It’s not cool to hate on Americans but you check all the boxes for the stereotypes. Seems like you live in a bubble. The best soccer players in the world don’t come close in athleticism to the NFL or NBA? That’s such an absurd statement, it’s idiotic. The player pool in soccer is much larger than probably all of American football and basketball combined. It’s not like Americans have a superior race of humans. Of course the best athletes in soccer are some of the best in the world. You’re most impressed by the combination of big muscles and speed, fine but don’t let that cloud your judgement.

What do you want me to say to an irrational thought process? You have a bias against US/NA. I have no bias against the field.

Your argument is they are the best at their sport, that means nothing and is arbitrary. The best cricket players ever very likely don't hold a candle to the best Tennis players let alone football players. You're just being ridiculous, no point in arguing whatever this is. Is NASCAR a sport? Bowling? Golf? What defines a sport.

And even some clear sports such as baseball and yes soccer are clearly far more skill based and require less pure athleticism than football or basketball for instance. You keep trying to accuse me of something here, no it's you who is blind and biased on this subject. Dudes slowly running long distance is not even close to as impressive as what Ja' Morant does on the court, or Byron Buxton/Trout does in the field, or Tyreek Hill or C-Mac does on a gridiron. Maybe you just don't LIKE those sports, cool but it still doesn't make Hicham el whatevero's sub 4 min mile a more "athletic" feat. You're taking subjectivity to an extreme.

I don't think Gordon Ryan is one of the best "athletes" in the world and if anything I'm biased in favor of BJJ/Grappling. Jordan Burroughs is a better athlete pretty clearly. He's a decent to good athlete but BJJ is just highly skill based. I'm not in some "bubble" because I don't find niche hipster sports/events to somehow be superior to clear-cut more athletic ones. You can believe what you want but it's delusional.

Also, since there's some "stereotype" and NA/US bias accustion:

- NBA = 21.8% reported international players (not born in US)
- MLB = ~29-30% international players
- NHL = ~30% international (as in not NA), 73% not from US
- NFL = 3% international -obviously by far the least as other countries basically don't play it

Now what are the numbers for US or NA people playing in the major soccer leagues, not MLS obviously which is dogshit by comparison. I bet it's lower than these sans NFL. Isn't that quite hypocritical? (oh and it might be lower than the NFL rate apparently)

 

[Robocok]

Is cardio a thing? I might have the best cardio here.

I'm pretty positive I'm one of the weakest lifters too.

What's your strength? Cycling, running?

 

[SalvadorAllende]

What's your strength? Cycling, running?

Nowadays I do more cycling than anything else.. just to burn calories and try keep myself lean as I get older. Running hurt my joints but I think it's because I never run and everytime I do it is about 5+ miles and then I complain.

TBH I'm actually more focused on weigh training (at home, gyms are closing) than anything else. My lifts sucks but I still enjoy it.

 

[Robocok]

Nowadays I do more cycling than anything else.. just to burn calories and try keep myself lean as I get older. Running hurt my joints but I think it's because I never run and everytime I do it is about 5+ miles and then I complain.

TBH I'm actually more focused on weigh training (at home, gyms are closing) than anything else. My lifts sucks but I still enjoy it.

Right on. My lifts suck too. I mainly just do it to make myself less prone to injury.

This is my bike.

 

[vision1]

What do you want me to say to an irrational thought process? You have a bias against US/NA. I have no bias against the field.

Your argument is they are the best at their sport, that means nothing and is arbitrary. The best cricket players ever very likely don't hold a candle to the best Tennis players let alone football players. You're just being ridiculous, no point in arguing whatever this is. Is NASCAR a sport? Bowling? Golf? What defines a sport.

And even some clear sports such as baseball and yes soccer are clearly far more skill based and require less pure athleticism than football or basketball for instance. You keep trying to accuse me of something here, no it's you who is blind and biased on this subject. Dudes slowly running long distance is not even close to as impressive as what Ja' Morant does on the court, or Byron Buxton/Trout does in the field, or Tyreek Hill or C-Mac does on a gridiron. Maybe you just don't LIKE those sports, cool but it still doesn't make Hicham el whatevero's sub 4 min mile a more "athletic" feat. You're taking subjectivity to an extreme.

I don't think Gordon Ryan is one of the best "athletes" in the world and if anything I'm biased in favor of BJJ/Grappling. Jordan Burroughs is a better athlete pretty clearly. He's a decent to good athlete but BJJ is just highly skill based. I'm not in some "bubble" because I don't find niche hipster sports/events to somehow be superior to clear-cut more athletic ones. You can believe what you want but it's delusional.

Also, since there's some "stereotype" and NA/US bias accustion:

- NBA = 21.8% reported international players (not born in US)
- MLB = ~29-30% international players
- NHL = ~30% international (as in not NA), 73% not from US
- NFL = 3% international -obviously by far the least as other countries basically don't play it

Now what are the numbers for US or NA people playing in the major soccer leagues, not MLS obviously which is dogshit by comparison. I bet it's lower than these sans NFL. Isn't that quite hypocritical? (oh and it might be lower than the NFL rate apparently)

I am North American
The only sports I watch are Football, Hockey, Basketball, and Baseball
But I am not oblivious to the fact that most of the world's population is outside of North America and therefore most of the best athletes in the world are not American. Even if America pushes and pursues and funds sports more than any other country, they just don't have the numbers. USA wins the most Olympic medals but they would still get crushed vs. the field.

You're being a complete hypocrite as well. You can't say soccer players are less athletic because they play a skill based sport and then claim running a sub 4 minute mile isn't an athletic feat ... It's a feat based ENTIRELY on athleticism.

Again, you are impressed by guys with big muscles who can sprint and jump. What you're impressed by doesn't align with the entire scope of athleticism.

 

[No Skill Gap]

I am North American
The only sports I watch are Football, Hockey, Basketball, and Baseball
But I am not oblivious to the fact that most of the world's population is outside of North America and therefore most of the best athletes in the world are not American. Even if America pushes and pursues and funds sports more than any other country, they just don't have the numbers. USA wins the most Olympic medals but they would still get crushed vs. the field.

You're being a complete hypocrite as well. You can't say soccer players are less athletic because they play a skill based sport and then claim running a sub 4 minute mile isn't an athletic feat ... It's a feat based ENTIRELY on athleticism.

Again, you are impressed by guys with big muscles who can sprint and jump. What you're impressed by doesn't align with the entire scope of athleticism.

We can simply agree to disagree, what you responded to wasn't about soccer but I knew it was going to be cited. You still can't grasp the fact that running miles+ is an extreme branch of "athleticism" so in context of a thread about who is the best athlete and what makes them the best...it shouldn't matter that much. Just like someone squatting 600-700lbs doesn't mean they are a good athlete per se.

Also claiming that the world's population sans NA > than NA therefore better athletes is fallacious. There is no proof for that. You're disregarding every shred of context there.

Here would be a bit of context that you are just blatantly ignoring:

- Michael Phelps has 28 olympic medals
- The country of India has 28 olympic medals ever

Michael Phelps, population 1 (current)
India, population 1.366 billion (current) well + their entire aggregate population since 1900/1920 (also a British guy is their only multiple medalist, so not really Indian but ok non-NA)

That would be just one instance - The Olympics. But it's an example of why just going by numbers/volume is an incorrect approach. Doesn't work that way in reality. The US objectively produces way better athletes than China + India combined right now yet has a population of ~327 million vs ~2.7 billion.

 

[vision1]

We can simply agree to disagree, what you responded to wasn't about soccer but I knew it was going to be cited. You still can't grasp the fact that running miles+ is an extreme branch of "athleticism" so in context of a thread about who is the best athlete and what makes them the best...it shouldn't matter that much. Just like someone squatting 600-700lbs doesn't mean they are a good athlete per se.

Also claiming that the world's population sans NA > than NA therefore better athletes is fallacious. There is no proof for that. You're disregarding every shred of context there.

Would you consider Usain Bolt in this thread about best athletes?

And I don't need proof, it's basic statistics. I did give evidence in USA vs the World in Olympic Medals.

 

[vision1]

We can simply agree to disagree, what you responded to wasn't about soccer but I knew it was going to be cited. You still can't grasp the fact that running miles+ is an extreme branch of "athleticism" so in context of a thread about who is the best athlete and what makes them the best...it shouldn't matter that much. Just like someone squatting 600-700lbs doesn't mean they are a good athlete per se.

Also claiming that the world's population sans NA > than NA therefore better athletes is fallacious. There is no proof for that. You're disregarding every shred of context there.

Here would be a bit of context that you are just blatantly ignoring:

- Michael Phelps has 28 olympic medals
- The country of India has 28 olympic medals ever

Michael Phelps, population 1 (current)
India, population 1.366 billion (current) well + their entire aggregate population since 1900/1920 (also a British guy is their only multiple medalist, so not really Indian but ok non-NA)

That would be just one instance - The Olympics. But it's an example of why just going by numbers/volume is an incorrect approach. Doesn't work that way in reality. The US objectively produces way better athletes than China + India combined right now yet has a population of ~327 million vs ~2.7 billion.

Not ignoring it.
Now continue that calculation for every other country on the planet. Let me know who comes out on top.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Would you consider Usain Bolt in this thread about best athletes?

And I don't need proof, it's basic statistics. I did give evidence in USA vs the World in Olympic Medals.

I edited my last post, but in short - Michael Phelps has 28 medals and the country of India since 1900 (ever) has 28 medals. So I don't think that point works so well.

I would in fact consider Usain Bolt to be a top athlete. But as I said, I value explosive speed and more short-term speed race events vs long-distance endurance. Why? It's logical. Because that translates

There's a fucking reason no one is talking about Lance Armstrong playing in the NBA or Hicham El Guerroj-whatever playing WR in the NFL. Yet, no matter how dumb it is, Usain Bolt in the NFL as a kick returner/WR was a topic. Why is that? Because it translates. His athleticism translates to other sports that aren't niche. Soccer, Football, Basketball, Baseball - his athleticism matters and would be beneficial (without addressing skills).

I'm not sure how or why you made this into some US vs the world argument either. If this is about you valuing the extreme endurance sports then go ahead. So let me ask you a question since you got one:

Who is the "better athlete", John Haack or Eliud Kipchoge? Julius Maddox or Stefano Baldini? And side note, US guy Galen Rupp medaled in the marathon last olympics in Rio so...again not sure why this is some non-US sport. No one in general gives a fuck about it, it's a niche sport. That is reality. Powerlifting, Strongman are also niche sports. Does tacking on an olympic medal make one "better" than the other? I'd argue strongman is more athletic than marathon running or 10k at the olympics honestly.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Not ignoring it.
Now continue that calculation for every other country on the planet. Let me know who comes out on top.

Yeah dude the Olympics is the sole test of athleticism based on arbitrary events when teachers in Greece were fucking their students lmao. No bro, reality is that most of the BEST ATHLETES aren't even competing in the olympics.

See: Boxing, NFL, NBA (a fraction does and we don't even send the best now), MLB, Tennis (yes mainly not US but some), ~MMA, etc - which are all omitted entirely if this is the definition.

I guess running around shooting a gun, going skiing, then getting off to shot your gun and run again > NFL/NBA athletically. Come on...let's have some fucking intellectual integrity here.

Is weightlifting somehow way more athletic than powerlifting and strongman because it's an olympic event?

 

[Fahcough]

People claimed GSP to be a top notch athlete. He is great at gymnastics and balance but on the TUF show they handed him a bat and he looked like a goof trying to hit a baseball , plus he runs with his feet out like a duck.

 

[vision1]

You don't get it.
I brought up USA vs the world because you brought up that all the best athletes are American. That's simply not true. You are focusing your attention on the major American sports because that's what you know.
Again, you don't get to decide what attributes define a good athlete. Usain Bolt is one of the greatest athletes of all time. But being the best at running 100m is not more athletic than being the best at running 1500m. 100m speed does translate better to playing American football ... so what? Is American football the ultimate display of athleticism? Come on now. You are creating the scope, you don't get to do that.
No one is good at everything. The best athletes are not comparable to each other, apples and oranges. The best in their sport are the best. period.

Michael Phelps would be a very athletic country, good point.

 

[No Skill Gap]

"You don't get it.
I brought up USA vs the world because you brought up that all the best athletes are American."

No I didn't, I literally never said that. Quote me.

You're ignoring every bit of evidence I show you. 30% of every major sport sans football is international non-US players. That's a huge chunk. And yes the US clearly is superior athletically to China or India for example, despite a massively smaller population. I do think, quite obviously too, that per capita the US fucking dominates athletically. It's insane to think otherwise imo. You want to talk olympics? The US has 2,828 medals. Second place USSR/Russia has 1.812 "combined. Third place is Britain with 883.

Now beyond that, are you seriously going to deny the fact that the NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL + Boxing/MMA originating from US/NA combined has way better athletes than any major sports globally combined? Because they obviously do. I don't think Cricket/Rugby are making up for the gap after Soccer is crushed.

There's no point in arguing. Like I said from the beginning if you want to define athleticism as a niche extreme, do so. But even the most hardcore powerlifter guys will admit that the top powerlifters don't hold a fucking candle in terms of athleticism to NFL/NBA players. Yet you're doing this with endurance events then later tried to justify it with olympic medals, when the events themselves are arbitrary and favor endurance because they were invented when there was zero technology and organized sports and focused on track/field heavily.

Okay, I agree that it is apples to oranges. But fuck me, if we can't come to an agreement that being the best at fucking GOLF is less relevant than being the best in the NBA in terms of peak athleticism then this is delusion. And you're entitled to your opinion but I think extreme long distances is already in that category where I'd say fuck off if you compare it to NFL/NBA and Soccer, MLB and NHL, toss in Rugby, Boxing, Wrestling, MMA.

This does not mean I value endurance as a ZERO. Cardio/Endurance is important overall. Guess what, strength is too, but no one is calling Derek fucking Poundstone one of the greatest athletes in the world are they? That would be my point here which you won't acknowledge. You're literally on one end of the spectrum and defending it and elevating it, while ignoring the other end? Neither are reflective of what I personally would consider the "best athlete". Both are an component of what makes a good athlete though.

There are plenty of guys out there that can run a sub 6 mile, a near or sub 5 mile but are fucking zero athletic nerds. Same goes for guys who start lifting and can say bench 300-400lbs or deadlift/squat 500-600+. Being a great athlete is not a qualifier for being great at the more niche, extreme end of spectrum stuff here.

 

[vision1]

... Clearly the best athletes are here (America) ...

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Right on. My lifts suck too. I mainly just do it to make myself less prone to injury.

This is my bike.

View attachment 860024

Nice bike brother. I'm looking forward to get one of those in the future.

I have an oldish 26' Zenith that I renewed last year and has been doing wonders in the city. But I want to start doing long distance at some point.

This week I got a flat tire so I went to work with my GF's. Office is 8,5 miles away so it was a fun ride:

 

[Robocok]

Nice bike brother. I'm looking forward to get one of those in the future.

I have an oldish 26' Zenith that I renewed last year and has been doing wonders in the city. But I want to start doing long distance at some point.

This week I got a flat tire so I went to work with my GF's. Office is 8,5 miles away so it was a fun ride:
View attachment 860046

That looks like it folds up nice and compact for storage.

These aren't impenetrable but they help



I like Giant. Best value brand imo

 

[SalvadorAllende]

People claimed GSP to be a top notch athlete. He is great at gymnastics and balance but on the TUF show they handed him a bat and he looked like a goof trying to hit a baseball , plus he runs with his feet out like a duck.

Zahabi said he sent GSP to do gymnastics because GSP is actually pretty stiff.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

That looks like it folds up nice and compact for storage.

These aren't impenetrable but they help

View attachment 860047

I like Giant. Best value brand imo

Yeah.. it folds. Luckly I can put it in my offices garage.

I think the problem with mine is the valve.. I think it broke when I was pumping air into it.