which takedown has the least possibility of you getting guillotined?

The Apostle said:
No fireman's carries, you are practically setting up the guillotine when you suck his arm down.
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the opponent's arm would be underhooked or slightly underhooked under yours and your head would go underneath the underhooked arm as you shoot in. i don't see how anyone could get guillotined in that position as you are isolating the opponent's arm that would be doing the guillotining. how are you doing the fireman's carry takedown?
 
cenix said:
the opponent's arm would be underhooked or slightly underhooked under yours and your head would go underneath the underhooked arm as you shoot in. i don't see how anyone could get guillotined in that position as you are isolating the opponent's arm that would be doing the guillotining. how are you doing the fireman's carry takedown?
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If he's a guillotine guy who's always looking for the guillotine and you don't have full control of his arm before you shoot the fireman's, then your neck is wide open.

You can also get crucifixed which is bad too
 
redaxe said:
If he's a guillotine guy who's always looking for the guillotine and you don't have full control of his arm before you shoot the fireman's, then your neck is wide open.

You can also get crucifixed which is bad too
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correct, but the point of the fireman's is to keep control of that arm so you can upset the balance of the opponent, pull his weight over you as you shoot through, then toss over while maintaining control of the arm & moving to side control (with head & arm). if at all things go bad you can reset, sit out, etc. while controlling the opponent's arm under your neck (if it got there). not trying to start a debate about hypothetical scenarios, just stating that it seems really hard for one to be caught with a guillotine if done properly while controlling the arm.
 
cenix said:
The opponent's arm would be underhooked or slightly underhooked under yours and your head would go underneath the underhooked arm as you shoot in.
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:D


cenix said:
I don't see how anyone could get guillotined in that position
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:eek:


You should give it a go a few times. I've gotten choked and armbarred on a firemans.

True story .

One armed version with wrist control, ftw .
 
fourfif said:
:D


:eek:


You should give it a go a few times. I've gotten choked and armbarred on a firemans.

True story .

One armed version with wrist control, ftw .
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Yeah, good call, except I'm thinking the two-on-one fireman's might be a little advanced for the OP...
 
If you make sure that you pass his guard kind of as you do the takedown with a double (e.g. sweep his legs to the other side of you as you do it), is there really a risk of the guillotine being successful? I've yet to be successfully guillotined, but maybe it's just because I haven't met someone good at it yet.

And if you are sparring, what does it matter? Why not ask him which takedowns he finds the most trouble with getting the guillotine on? Unless for some reason you think you are sure to meet in the finals of some competition, I'd just try a few things and ask.
 
ShowUsYaJits said:
If you make sure that you pass his guard kind of as you do the takedown with a double (e.g. sweep his legs to the other side of you as you do it), is there really a risk of the guillotine being successful? I've yet to be successfully guillotined, but maybe it's just because I haven't met someone good at it yet.

And if you are sparring, what does it matter? Why not ask him which takedowns he finds the most trouble with getting the guillotine on? Unless for some reason you think you are sure to meet in the finals of some competition, I'd just try a few things and ask.
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Really good guillotine guys can finish it from bottom side control or even bottom mount. See Cody McKenzie.
 
what type of training you have, sounds like high school wrestling. if so do an under over throw
 
ankle pick, especially from tie up (tie up, use right hand behind the hand to snap down while using left hand to grab his left ankle)

or from a tie up use a trip, such as again right hand beind the his head, duck your head under his right arm and use your right ankel/calf area to trip his right leg.

i am terrible at describing so hope that creatse some kind of visual.
 
If it were me, I'd hit a duck under. But you don't try and win sparring sessions, you use them to work on things you need to work on. I never played top game in BJJ. I always played bottom game cuz that's what I needed to work on coming in from wrestling. Now, I dare say my bottom game is superior.
 
The Apostle said:
No fireman's carries, you are practically setting up the guillotine when you suck his arm down. No shots either, except maybe low singles or ankle picks from the clinch. I would stick with throws or trips from tie-ups if you are decent enough with them.
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rolling firemans carry is a good defense vs guilliotines
 
YeahBee said:
rolling firemans carry is a good defense vs guilliotines
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With a gi I agree kata guruma is great because you can keep the wrist elbow away from your neck with a good grip, but in nogi it's harder to prevent the overhooked arm from wrapping around your neck. That's why I advocate the one armed variation in nogi. If you step into your opponent and even slightly kimura-ish the arm before following through with the throw it's not gonna happen. At least imo, and so far.
 
Any clinch trip, throw. Pull guard. Or, if you're shooting for his legs, don't leave your neck out there like a dumbass.

If you have proper technique with your takedown, getting choked is a non- issue. On a double, keep your head pressed right against his side, and drive through him. Single leg, post your forehead right into his chest HARD. Firemans carry/ high crotch, if you're doing it right you shouldn't get guillotined either.
 
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