Which GOAT win was the best between these 2?

[OverhandRightKayo]

lol yikes, its alright bud i know the agenda.

you guys can have your little argument, anyone with a brain knows whats up.

Conor got exposed bro.

"Urshurr got the beat to make your booty go"

 

[OverhandRightKayo]

Definitely not the easiest win. Bisping took some serious damage in that fight.

Sure, Silva lost some fights when he was around 40 and had around 40 fights. He is obviously way past his prime from when he went on a 17 fight win streak and broke all the UFC records.

Love you my baby bro typree

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Not really IMO.

Fitch didn’t sustain value as an opponent over time.

To sell this win (and a great achievement it was) one has to do a lot of explaining about Fitch being an unbeatable smothering opponent back then and GSP shutting down his wrestling game like it’s nothing.

Nonsense. Fitch kept his value very well post GSP. For starters, he won his next five fights in a row after losing to GSP. And overall, post GSP he is 13-4-2, which is damn good considering he's kept fighting well into his forties. For a relevant point of comparison, Yushin Okami went 10-7 after losing to Silva, which is significantly less successful.

GSP's stretch of wins in 2007-2008, including the Fitch fight, were the best and most defining of his career imo.

 

[mjfan23]

Nonsense. Fitch kept his value very well post GSP. For starters, he won his next five fights in a row after losing to GSP. And overall, post GSP he is 13-4-2, which is damn good considering he's kept fighting well into his forties. For a relevant point of comparison, Yushin Okami went 10-7 after losing to Silva, which is significantly less successful.

GSP's stretch of wins in 2007-2008, including the Fitch fight, were the best and most defining of his career imo.

Again you are benchmarking Fitch against okami and I have already declared neither as a legacy defining win. The sonnen, hendo, ace and griffin fights for Andy and the Hughes, penn, and Bisping type fights for GSP were legacy defining!

 

[ferrisjso]

Im having a debate with @pankrat and we would like to know sherdog's opinion.

Please mods add a poll.

Which was the best win :

1. Silva's win against Okami (tko round 2)
Okami was ranked number 2 MW in some medias at the time, stayed at that spot for about 2-3 months. He was on a 3 fights win streak at the time. He also lost his very next fight against Boetsh then went 3-1 before moving to the minor leagues.

2. GSP's win against Fitch (UD 50-43, 50-44, 50-43)
Fitch was ranked number 2 WW in all mma medias at the time and stayed at that spot for around 3 years. He was also ranked top 10 p4p in some mma medias. He was on a 16 fights winning streak at the time. After the fight, he went 5-0-1 before losing to Hendricks.

It's not even close. GSP v Fitch. That's really the win GSP's entire GOAT argument hangs on. He took a one dimensional wrestler who crushed everyone in that era(arguably more impressively than GSP did)and dominated him at his own game. GSP got more passive after this and then fled subsequent generations this fight is pivotal to GSP's legacy as he obliterated the second or third best WW fighter(Shields) of his own era.

Okami's a nice win in an AS title reign that was pretty weak but he was a good matchup for AS. It pales compared to Vitor, Hendo(who he should have rematched) and even Chael whom Okami lost to. While Okami didn't deserve to be cut during that era he was behind AS,Hendo, Bisping,Chael even Rich Franklin. A perennial top 5 guy. Best win was Belcher(Marquardt fight was really close).

 

[Juzie]

Again you are benchmarking Fitch against okami and I have already declared neither as a legacy defining win. The sonnen, hendo, ace and griffin fights for Andy and the Hughes, penn, and Bisping type fights for GSP were legacy defining!

Come on prime Sonnen lost to an old ass Tito who had once went on like a 50 losing streak..... idc if he tapped or whatever that's a sad loss. Prime Fitch lost to who???? GSP? Who else? fucking no one lol.

Fitch is probably the greatest UFC fighter to never win a belt if we are going by resume. If GSP didn't exist Fitch would have had a nice long boring title run.

Okami was pretty good. He did rank 2nd at some point...but he never held 2nd with an iron fist like Fitch did. Fitch is absolutely a career defining win. That win is the moment when we all realized GSP was unstoppable. Before that he was a guy who had lost to Serra...edged BJ penn. 1-1 with Matt Hughes etc. Okami holds no such value over Silva's legacy, which would almost be identical even if he didn't fight Okami. Some people are trying to rewrite history in this thread....or were just casuals/not around at all during the time these fights took place.

 

[Muaythaibrit]

Anderson actually finished Okami. Fitch got beat down for 5 rounds, but finishes are what is impressive and matters

No wins matter. Finishes look good

 

[pankrat]

No wins matter. Finishes look good

Finishing your opponent in a fight is just a matter of looks??

How low can get some shertards on here? WTF

 

[Muaythaibrit]

Hard to say. Okami had a much better resume at the time however Fitch was on a tear with the 16 fight win streak and his six fight win streak after when Okami was finished by Boetsch. Of course a finish is more impressive however GSP dominated a very good fighter in his prime. I’d have to go the Fitch win

 

[Muaythaibrit]

Finishing your opponent in a fight is just a matter of looks??

How low can get some shertards on here? WTF

I could of explained better, of course finishes are great and impressive, but ultimately wins are the most important thing

 

[pankrat]

Hard to say. Okami had a much better resume at the time however Fitch was on a tear with the 16 fight win streak and his six fight win streak after when Okami was finished by Boetsch. Of course a finish is more impressive however GSP dominated a very good fighter in his prime. I’d have to go the Fitch win

I could of explained better, of course finishes are great and impressive, but ultimately wins are the most important thing

Well, of course wins are the most important thing but we are already comparing two wins in a tittle fight. So what's the point exactly?

Okami and Fitch were similar caliber of opponent and as you say Okami had actually better record at the time.

Fitch's 16 winning strak included one of the most infamous robberies of that era vs Joslin so when your whole point is based around how impressive is that number (16) and that number isnt even legit, it seems like a pretty fucking weak point, dont you agree?

On the ther hand, Okami was in a 20-3 run with better wins on it and any those 3 Ls were against better fighters than anybody in Fitch's streak.

So how is ouclassing your opponent followed by a emphatic FINISH not a superior performance than taking it to a decision?

It's absurd and any fight fan would disagree with that. People who pretend so in this thread does it because there are ton of GSP fanboyis around here but even they would take the opposite stance if any other fighters were involved not named GSP

 

[The-AxeMurderer]

Fitch win was definitely better IMO.

Fitch is so underrated, last year at age 42 the dude fought to a draw with the much younger Rory Macdonald. Many people thought he won. I know Rory is on the decline but still.

Fitch was 14-3 in the UFC. He only lost GSP, Hendricks and Maia.

All his losses are against good fighters STILL.

And he had NOTHING for GSP.

Sometimes a 5 round ass whooping says a lot more than a 2 round stoppage.

Also as others have stated Fitch beat Okami soooooo.............

 

[pankrat]

Fitch win was definitely better IMO.

Fitch is so underrated, last year at age 42 the dude fought to a draw with the much younger Rory Macdonald. Many people thought he won. I know Rory is on the decline but still.

Fitch was 14-3 in the UFC. He only lost GSP, Hendricks and Maia.

All his losses are against good fighters STILL.

And he had NOTHING for GSP.

Sometimes a 5 round ass whooping says a lot more than a 2 round stoppage.

Also as others have stated Fitch beat Okami soooooo.............

soooo.....what?
If you pretend that the outcome of a fight being both past their prime, with Fitch getting caught for PEDs around that same time and looking as ripped as ever in his late 30s vs a very declining Okami who didnt popped for PEDs is a solid argument for anyting, I think its pretty telling about the honesty of your opinion. Not to mention you probabably didnt even watch the fight.

btw odds had Okami as the favourite coming into that fight despite him coming off a KO loss and moving down a weight class, which again shows that Fitch wasnt perceived as the much superior opponent to the point of justifying that a decision is a superior win than actually FINISHING the fight

https://www.bestfightodds.com/events/wsof-24-fitch-vs-okami-998

 

[The-AxeMurderer]

soooo.....what?
If you pretend that the outcome of a fight being both past their prime, with Fitch getting caught for PEDs around that same time and looking as ripped as ever in his late 30s vs a very declining Okami who didnt popped for PEDs is a solid argument for anyting, I think its pretty telling about the honesty of your opinion. Not to mention you probabably didnt even watch the fight.

btw odds had Okami as the favourite coming into that fight despite him coming off a KO loss and moving down a weight class, which again shows that Fitch wasnt perceived as the much superior opponent to the point of justifying that a decision is a superior win than actually FINISHING the fight

https://www.bestfightodds.com/events/wsof-24-fitch-vs-okami-998

So GSP dominated PED user like that? Thats even more impressive.

Silvas also a PED user should we take all this into account as well?

GSP is definitely the GOAT.

 

[The-AxeMurderer]

I dont know if Fitch was on PED vs GSP or not, Im telling you he blatantly was - and actually got caught around the time - vs Okami, who was in top of it badly in the decline. You understood it very well but still use it to justify claiming that a decisision > emphatic finish.

A bit of a dishonest bitch you are, no?
Then you scream "GSP is definitely GOAT" which doesnt even relates to the matter....I mean, you couldn get more shertard, like right from the texbook you are lol

Im the bitch but you are responding to everyone in the thread.




You are clearly butthurt most dont agree with you.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

[

Because you say so, right? No need of any point other than GSP fanboyism.

Okami and Fitch were opponents of similar caliber, according to rankings, odds and record vs top5 competition

> Fitch would NOT be favoured to beat Okami at the time if they were matched up - and if so not by much - at 170 let alone at 185. Even when they eventually got matched up, Okami was the favourite even though it was at 170:
https://www.bestfightodds.com/events/wsof-24-fitch-vs-okami-998

> Okami had more top5 ranked wins going into his tittle fight than Fitch had

> Okami was top5 ranked in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013, according to sherdog rankings. #2 at some point of most of those years, if not every of them.

Despite of all this, beating Fitch by decision is a "very much legacy defining win" while outclassing and finishing Okami is just an anecdote. Who needs arguments when you are full of fanboyism, right?

Step back and take a deep breathe and reread what I said. You are the one responding like an emotional fanboy here, not me.

Of course beating Fitch adds greatly to GSP's legacy. The fight was at the height of GSP's prime and it was against an opponent who otherwise was on 21 fight win streak if not for losing to GSP. Jon Fitch, by every objective measurement, was a top notch welterweight.

If you think Silva's win over Okami defined his legacy, I'm OK with that, and I never said it was an anecdote. Perhaps you are conflating my response with that of someone else. In fact, I don't remember saying anything at all about the effect of the Okami win on Silva's' legacy.

If you could quote where I said something like that, perhaps your comment could be viewed as something more than a tantrum.

 

[pankrat]

[


Step back and take a deep breathe and reread what I said. You are the one responding like an emotional fanboy here, not me.

Of course beating Fitch adds greatly to GSP's legacy. The fight was at the height of GSP's prime and it was against an opponent who otherwise was on 21 fight win streak if not for losing to GSP. Jon Fitch, by every objective measurement, was a top notch welterweight.

If you think Silva's win over Okami defined his legacy, I'm OK with that, and I never said it was an anecdote. Perhaps you are conflating my response with that of someone else. In fact, I don't remember saying anything at all about the effect of the Okami win on Silva's' legacy.

If you could quote where I said something like that, perhaps your comment could be viewed as something more than a tantrum.

I dont dispute Fitch was a great win, call it legacy defining if you wish. Of course he was a top notch WW.
You are the one downplaying Silva's win over Okami while pretending you dont, and offering nothing to support such stance.

Let's remind you are trying to justity the claim that a decision win > emphatic finish, both in a tittle fight.
So you better bring a solid point to support it was vs much superior quality of competition otherwise the bias is all over the place, dont you agree? Be honest friend, please.

I present to you that rankings, odds and record vs top5 competition credited Okami as, at least, an opponent of similar caliber than Fitch's, and actually had way more credentials vs top competition going into his tittle fight.
You dont want to address at any of that, not even remotely.

Other posters who shared your stance addressed the matter and had a legit honest discussion.

You instead dont want to know anything and stick to a winning streak that includes one of the most infamous robberies of that era vs Joslim, and that doesnt include any win better than the ones Okami collected to get his tittle shot.

But hey, 16 is a powerful number uh? 21 even more. So who cares if such number is even legit really. It sounds powerful and helps my narrative so let's just stick with it.

Because of that I perceive an obvious lack of honesty in your stance so I replied accordingly.
With all due respect, are you Canadian? Do you honestly think you are unabiased? I respect whatever opinion you or anybody else has but let's be honest here.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

You are the one downplaying Silva's win over Okami while pretending you dont, and offering nothing to support such stance.

No, I never said anything like that. Once again I ask you to reread my comment. You are responding to the wrong person, and being kind of an ass about it. I never said Okami wasn't a good win or didn't help Silva's legacy.

If you can quote me somewhere putting Okami down or saying he was not a good win, please do so, otherwise you should settle down.

Let's remind you are trying to justity the claim that a decision win > emphatic finish, both in a tittle fight.

I never said a single thing about this. Are you inebriated?

 

[pankrat]

No, I never said anything like that. Once again I ask you to reread my comment. You are responding to the wrong person, and being kind of an ass about it. I never said Okami wasn't a good win or didn't help Silva's legacy.

If you can quote me somewhere putting Okami down or saying he was not a good win, please do so, otherwise you should settle down.

I never said a single thing about this. Are you inebriated?

Maybe Im mistaken. Correct me if Im wrong.

Didn't you claim GSP's win over Fitch, despite being by dec, was a superior performance than Silva stopping Okami?
That's what the thread is about.

So what you support such stance with?
Unless I missed something that you ellaborated on your opinion, doesnt your claim implies that Okami was on a inferior league as an opponent when not even a finish qualifies as a superior win than a judges decision, being both in a tittle fight??

Otherwise whats the basis for your claim? Let me know

I never said a single thing about this. Are you inebriated?

¿?
What do you say here?:

GSP over Fitch easily..

You even add "easily" lol.
Easily!
C'mon...

 

[Fioretti]

Fitch was 19-2-1 (86.36% win rate) with 11 finishes (57.89% finish rate in 19 victories) over 6 years in one weight class. 1 verified top 10 win - earned his shot by beating unranked UFC newcomer Chris Wilson.

Okami was 27-5 (84.38% win rate) with 14 finishes (51.85% finish rate in 27 victories) over 9 years across 3 weight classes. At least 4 verified top 10 wins - earned his shot by beating #4 ranked former title contender and multi-time former Pancrase Champion Nate Marquardt.

The fact that this post keeps getting ignored by the rabidly delusional GSP fanboys says it all. Why are they conveniently overlooking facts? Why has nobody addressed or tried to refute this? Weird.