Which GOAT win was the best between these 2?

[Juzie]

Weak as fuck to pretend that this iddle list made by a guy named Brent from Bloodysport is a support for anything, but if we go that route we have a way more authority than Brent in Sherdog rankings which credited Sakurai as a top p4p. Should that win be considered than most in GSP's or Silva's career?

Fitch cleared out the division lol he earned a title shot 2 or 3 times but Dana didn't want to give him one. If there was a title for 2nd place, Fitch would never lose that belt. Okami would never come close to achieving that dominance, that belt probably would have belonged to Hendo at that time.

 

[Shaddows]

Im having a debate with @pankrat and we would like to know sherdog's opinion.

Please mods add a poll.

Which was the best win :

1. Silva's win against Okami (tko round 2)
Okami was ranked number 2 MW in some medias at the time, stayed at that spot for about 2-3 months. He was on a 3 fights win streak at the time. He also lost his very next fight against Boetsh then went 3-1 before moving to the minor leagues.

2. GSP's win against Fitch (UD 50-43, 50-44, 50-43)
Fitch was ranked number 2 WW in all mma medias at the time and stayed at that spot for around 3 years. He was also ranked top 10 p4p in some mma medias. He was on a 16 fights winning streak at the time. After the fight, he went 5-0-1 before losing to Hendricks.

IMHO, It really depends how you look at it.

in both fights, we absolutely knew GSP and Silva would win.
Their swag, their aura of invincibility alone was like half battle done.

The only difference, is that Okami fought (and "beat") Silva before... (well, DQ). The point is that he faced Silva, so it was not a "7 headed monster" like other opponents saw Silva (or GSP).
In that sense, I think it makes a harder win for SIlva making his win a better one.

But to put on Goldie's words during the fight, GSP "Fitch'd" the Fitch. That was amazing.

The problem you will face though is that Fitch was deemed "boring".
And GSP is also criticized for being Boring at times.
Not my personal taste (I was always entertained), but this might give you some "hate" on the answer.

because on the other side, you have Silva doing this:

If you take by taste, Silva wins by miles and miles.

But anyone who watched GSP fights, knows that the way he beat Fitch, however "boring" you may think, was a feat no one truly thought possible.

 

[pankrat]

Fitch cleared out the division lol he earned a title shot 2 or 3 times but Dana didn't want to give him one. If there was a title for 2nd place, Fitch would never lose that belt. Okami would never come close to achieving that dominance, that belt probably would have belonged to Hendo at that time.

I know Fitch's trajectory very well, who doesnt seem to know shit about the guy we are comparing him with is you.

First of all Okami also got two tittle shots. First one in 2008 missed by injury.
Before that had taken Rich Franklin to a extremely close dec in another tittle eliminator.
Marquardt had a higher rank, and very arguably was a better opponent, than anybody Fitch beat to get his tittle shot.
Okami was ranked at least top3 at some point every year from 2008 to 2013.

The fact Yushin earned not one but two tittle shot despite being one of the most underpromoted contenders in UFC, who didnt even speak English and had a not fan friendly style is a testament of his caliber; there is no remotely objective way to look at it that supports Fitch was such a superior opponent to claim a dec > emphatic finish

 

[Fioretti]

I never made the claim of total objectivity, only mocked it. These kind of comparisons always involve subjectivity. People on Sherdog always like to use the word "objectivity" improperly to validate their opinion. Of course it is an opinion. It may involve some objective ideas, but that doesn't make the conclusion entirely objective, which is what a lot of Sherdoggers miss.

Fitch was a better opponent in a better division basically, and he had dominated most of his competition, and done so better than Okami.

Well, you were mocking people claiming objectivity by giving a completely subjective blanket statement, without justifying it:

"There is no comparison between Fitch and Okami; much better win for GSP."

They are actually two very comparable fighters, and there is factual statistical data that we can use to objectively compare them.

"Fitch was a better opponent in a better division basically, and he had dominated most of his competition, and done so better than Okami"

Oh, no! Another completely subjective statement with no context or objective facts to back it. Weird.

How was Fitch in a better division? How many more top 5-10 wins did he have than Okami? How many UFC wins did each fighter have to accumulate to get a title shot? Who did they beat to earn their shot? Fitch had 8 wins in the UFC and beat an unranked Chris Wilson (who was making his UFC debut) to finally earn his title shot. His only top 10 win in these 8 victories was Diego Sanchez. Okami beat #4 ranked, former title contender, Nate Marquardt in his 10th UFC win and his 2nd successful UFC title eliminator to finally earn his shot at the title. He beat at least 3 top 10 opponents along the way, if not 5. I'm unsure about Munoz and Belcher's exact ranking at the time, so I won't even count them. Let's just stick with 3 - Swick, Tanner, and Marquardt. Okami also lost 2 of his 12 UFC fights prior to his title shot, dropping decisions to former champ Rich Franklin (top 5 opponent) and future title contender Chael Sonnen - who earned both a top 10 entry and a title eliminator with a victory over Okami.

Fitch was 19-2-1 (86.36% win rate) with 11 finishes (57.89% finish rate in 19 victories) over 6 years in one weight class, but he did have one single bout (vs Shonie Carter) at MW in 2003. 1 verified top 10 win.

Okami was 27-5 (84.38% win rate) with 14 finishes (51.85% finish rate in 27 victories) over 9 years across 3 weight classes. At least 4 verified top 10 wins. (4th is actually his DQ victory over Silva in ROTR)

These are objective facts that you can use to objectively compare these two fighters when they had their title shots. As another user has pointed out, these two fighters also fought each other later on down the road, with Okami being the betting favorite - another objective fact you can use to assess and compare. Now that we've debunked your crazy statement of "there's no comparison" and I have provided you with some comparative tools, you can clearly see that there is a comparison to be made: Okami had more experience, more ranked wins, more UFC wins, better overall competition, and was the betting favorite in their eventual fight. Fitch was on a much longer win streak, had a slightly better win rate, and a fairly better finishing rate. Both held top 5 rankings in their divisions for extended periods, yet Okami had to actually beat multiple top ranked fighters to earn his ranking, and Fitch only had to beat 1.

Now let's objectively compare the performances:
-GSP puts a near flawless MMA clinic on Fitch over 5 rounds, but can't put him away.
-Silva puts a flawless MMA clinic on Okami and knocks him out in less than 2 rounds.

 

[cade187]

The higher ranked fighter is the better win though, for example, if you are a ranked fighter trying to earn a title shot then beating #5 is far better than beating #19 right?

I am not saying Okami wasn't a good win, but Fitch is undoubtedly a better win. You won't find a single p4p list from that era that rates Okami above Fitch. Well maybe if you try a troll like Bloodstain Lane or someone similar....

Who was the tougher figher? Different debate.... who was the better win? Fitch hands down.

So just say that your opinion is the only thing that matters is their p4p rank. Both opponents were ranked #2 in their division. So a win over either of them is the same for trying to earn a title shot. Both guys were ranked similarly, and in my opinion, the way you win is important, and Silva won far more impressively.

 

[Fioretti]

@ThunderStruck

Conclusion:

Fitch was not a significantly better opponent than Okami. They are two very comparable fighters, especially at the times in question. There is no factual data or analysis that would suggest a decision win over Fitch somehow magically eclipses Silva's flawless 7 minute KO of Okami. If Fitch was 22-0 with 5-6 top 10 wins and 18 finishes, then yes, a 25 minute ass whoopin without a finish would be something worth comparing to a 7 minute knockout of Yushin Okami, but he wasn't. Okami was the more established fighter, had more experience, more ranked wins, and earned his shot by beating a top 5 opponent and former title contender. Fitch's win streak over subpar competition isn't enough to eclipse Silva's masterful knockout and make it inferior to a decision victory.

That's all @pankrat (Patty) was tryin to say.

 

[Fioretti]

You forgot to quote the TS, deserves to be informed.

We both know Thunderdamus well enough to know that it won't make a difference. She's ignored most of my posts in this thread already.

Is normal.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Not really legacy defining wins

I think GSP's win over Fitch was very much a legacy defining win.

 

[ThunderStruck]

TBF, I dont know who joslin is. I just remember Fitches blanket technique was extremely hard to beat, but stylistically, I thought it would be an easy fight for GSP. Stylistically, Okami was bad for AS, but either way, I thought it would be an easy match for silva simply because he had mastered MMA at that point.

I'm just saying, it was one of GSP's toughest opponents

silva clearly has the better more dominant wins, I dont think anyone disputes that. Fitch was like Chael sonnen level of competition for their respective times..... except chael is a little better/more dangerous at the time. Fitch and Okami were very similar style fighters, super strong, nullifying types.

Fitch was more highly regarded as Sonnen.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Shut the hell up.

Idiot.

Accept the facts.

What facts?

 

[ThunderStruck]

Cool story, dude. So all your knowledge of this game is about takjs in sherdog heavies lol

Anderson being such a massive favourite is a testament of his greatness. He was widely ranked as #1 p4p for a reason.

If Okami and Fitch were matched, none of them would be a massive favourite over the other, so get it right, its not that Yushin was that bad, its was about Silva being that good.

Cut the BS with that "public perception" of the shertard forum dude, it's embarrassing.
Okami and Fitch were similar caliber of opponent according to odds, rankings and performances vs top5 competition, whatever difference could be between them doesnt justufy than taking it to the judges is a superior performance than finishing a fight. Only a shertard of the first order or a stupid fanboy would dispute that.

You're being embarassed with facts and shrugging off like it doesn't count. Pathetic. You weren't even watching mma at the time. Your biased opinion is worth shit.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Just admit your bias and move on. You sound like a child. Do you want people's opinions? Or do you want people to agree with you?

How about you stop being offended like a little girl?

 

[ThunderStruck]

Weak as fuck to pretend that this iddle list made by a guy named Brent from Bloodysport is a support for anything, but if we go that route we have a way more authority than Brent in Sherdog rankings which credited Sakurai as a top p4p. Should that win be considered than most in GSP's or Silva's career?

Go on and provide some list of someone you think is more credible.

You've been shoved with countless of links of rankings in this thread. But none of them are credible. You are truly a sore loser.

 

[ThunderStruck]

So just say that your opinion is the only thing that matters is their p4p rank. Both opponents were ranked #2 in their division. So a win over either of them is the same for trying to earn a title shot. Both guys were ranked similarly, and in my opinion, the way you win is important, and Silva won far more impressively.

One was ranked #2 for about 4 months total in his career, the other was ranked #2 for 32 months. One was never ranked top 10 p4p, the other was.

Their rankings weren't on the same level.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Hey uber nerd @ThunderStruck , rretti is squirting in this ur thread open the mouth

Fioretti is one of the dumbest guy on the internet. No matter why he sides with you.

You on the other hands have been shit on with facts, statistics and links. What's your reaction? "I disagree with them so they don't count!"

If you were on sherdog for more than a couple years you'd know how worthless Fioretti is.

 

[Fioretti]

One was ranked #2 for about 4 months total in his career, the other was ranked #2 for 32 months. One was never ranked top 10 p4p, the other was.

Their rankings weren't on the same level.

The fact that Fitch was ranked so high for so long with less top 10 and top 5 wins just shows he was in a weaker and more shallow division. Consensus #2 for 42 months without ever beating a #2 or #3? Weird.

 

[ImLovinIt]

Rankings wise, Fitch is a way higher and a better opponent than Okami.

 

[Fioretti]

Fioretti is one of the dumbest guy on the internet. No matter why he sides with you.

You on the other hands have been shit on with facts, statistics and links. What's your reaction? "I disagree with them so they don't count!"

If you were on sherdog for more than a couple years you'd know how worthless Fioretti is.

Oh, girl. You habitually ignore facts, math, logic, language, and reality. You can't refute a fucking thing I say and run away like a scared little nerd every time.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Oh, girl. You habitually ignore facts, math, logic, language, and reality. You can't refute a fucking thing I say and run away like a scared little nerd every time.

What facts am I ignoring? Enlighten me.

 

[Fioretti]

Rankings wise, Fitch is a way higher and a better opponent than Okami.

This was proven false multiple times.