Which GOAT win was the best between these 2?

[jsbx45]

I didnt insult you actually so dont cry like a battered wife in advance.
Dont take it personal anyways, English isnt my first language and enjoy working on them that way.
I called your reply simple and blanket and it was and u know it, and especially to come up with it in the 15th page.

Address the points in the reply quoted or you can save the 3rd reply to babble the same blanket, pointless, shertard shit you delivered twice already,

I addressed your points directly. You did insult me. Twice now. Don't worry though I'm a big boy and like I said if you want to play that game we can. You won't be able to hang. Hell you can't even handle someone's opinion in a thread that asked for them. LOL Like I said calm the fuck down. Go get some food boy, I think you're going low blood sugar.

 

[Fioretti]

How is that I didnt read such stat after 15 pages of discussing with the stat lover GSP gang of fanboys/girls?
I guess it refflects the dishonesty of these stat rats.

Remember, Fitch was the #2 for 42 months in the most stacked division ever! How did he achieve this? By beating only 3 top 10 fighters in his entire 11 year (first pro fight to last UFC fight) career. Fuck, man, can't you see how he was so amazing!? Such higher quality than the weak Asian guy who did nothing ever.

 

[jsbx45]

This is where they were when they fought each champion:

Fitch was 19-2-1 (86.36% win rate) with 11 finishes (57.89% finish rate in 19 victories) over 6 years in one weight class. 1 verified top 10 win - earned his shot by beating unranked UFC newcomer Chris Wilson.

Okami was 27-5 (84.38% win rate) with 14 finishes (51.85% finish rate in 27 victories) over 9 years across 3 weight classes. At least 4 verified top 10 wins - earned his shot by beating #4 ranked former title contender and multi-time former Pancrase Champion Nate Marquardt.

Fitch's numbers are a little magnified due to a small sample size (he had 10 less fights than Okami did), so my last post was to show you how both fighters' numbers looked at 32 pro fights into their careers. Even with Fitch's small sample size, their numbers are fucking ridiculously close, yet Okami has 4 top 10 wins to Fitch's 3. Fitch had only faced 1 top 10 fighter in his entire career prior to facing GSP. Okami faced 6.

Okami had more experience against better competition.

The argument is that Fitch was such a better win, such a higher quality opponent, that a 5 round decision is somehow a better victory than a flawless 7 minute destruction. Where in the holy fuck are you guys coming to the determination that Fitch was just that many levels ahead of Okami? How? What facts support this? Tell us.

Nah I'm good.

 

[Fioretti]

Nah I'm good.

At least you tap when you know you're fuct. Hespect.

 

[pankrat]

Fitch was never a finisher, and what do their last 4 fights have to do with this argument? Why are we arguing this? At the time, Fitch was a much better win. You revisionists can scream and yell all you want but it won't change a thing for folks who were paying attention to the game at the time. Y"all Okami fan club seem to be a little too invested in this whole fucking argument over a subjective historical tidbit anways, Jeebus. Go get some food you guys, I think your boy @pankrat is going low blood sugar.

If you mean that Fitch was seen as a much more of a challenge for the champion it obviously was but that's a different story. It refflects the superiority of Silva's above his peers, especially at that point in time, coming off front kicking Belfort as opposed to GSP tapping to strikes to Matt Serra not that long ago.

Acknowledging that fact may imply giving a credit to Silva's greatnesses that butthurts the many GSP fanboy/girls in these boards and that's why we are here.

The fact some of you take away such credit from Silva in order to downplay his performance and competition is dishonest, or simply stupid and ignorant.

 

[jsbx45]

At least you tap when you know you're fuct. Hespect.

Nah. No time to argue with zealots.

 

[pankrat]

Nah. No time to argue with zealots.

Yet you have time to read diatribes of a guy in a foreign language.
Fact is that no zealots in forums, but pundits and betting men at the time did NOT support what you parrot, like an uber simpleton sherbro for his 10th reply in this shit thread.

 

[Fioretti]

Nah. No time to argue with zealots.

I mean, that's just some PeeWee Herman shit right there. Like all the fanatical GSP girls. Zealots is good phrasing, though. Well spoken.

There's nothing to argue. Fitch wasn't a higher caliber fighter than Okami. He sure as shit wasn't multiple levels above him. They're very comparable, even though Okami edges him in quality. What this means is that there's no way to justify saying that a 5 round decision over Fitch is somehow more significant than a 7 minute KO of Okami. It simply isn't true. Fitch would have to have been an undefeated finishing machine with at least 7 or 8 top 10 wins at the time for this to even be remotely true. He wasn't. Plain and simple.

Your automated response of "no time to argue" is just an admission of defeat while trying to save face. You've been on a forum for many years, arguing and discussing many topics with many different people. If you had an argument, you'd type it out. You've been "arguing" with people in this thread for a while. Now all of a sudden you change your mind? Why? Because you have no argument, my dude. It's cool, is normal, just don't try to pretend it's something it's not. The KO of Okami was more significant than the 5 round molly whopping of Fitch. Okami was a more proven fighter with more experience and fought better competition. That's all.

 

[Fioretti]

Ranked #2 for so long because he lost twice as less? Case proven.

You are really a special kind of stupid, aren't ya? Fitch wasn't even ranked #2 when he fought GSP. He had just entered the top 10. Lost "twice as less"? Let's not speak on the phrasing issues, but only the mathematical part. When Fitch was at 32 professional fights, he actually had 1 MORE loss than Okami, and 2 LESS wins. You want to say he had half the total cumulative losses than Okami did when they each had their title shot, right? Ok, that's true, but Fitch also had only 2/3rds of Okami's total fights. We saw what he did in his next 11 fights, and it's not very impressive in comparison:

At 32 fights into their careers:

Okami: 27-5 (84.38% win rate) with 14 finishes (51.85% finish rate) - 3-1 in his last 4 fights - with 4 top 10 wins
Fitch: 25-6-1 (78.12% win rate) with 11 finishes (44% finish rate) - 1-3 in his last 4 fights - with 3 top 10 wins

Fun facts:

- Fitch fought another 11 times over 5 years since the GSP fight, and didn't get one single finish - lowering his finish rate by over 13%.
- Fitch (while being the consensus #2 for 3.5 years) only added 6 more total wins to his resume in 5 years/11 fights - lowering his win rate by over 8%.
- Fitch (while being the consensus #2 for 3.5 years) only added 2 more top 10 wins to his resume in 5 years/11 fights - still less than what Okami had when he fought Silva.
- This is where Okami was at when he fought Silva for the title.
- This is where Fitch was at 5 years after facing GSP, after holding the #2 spot in the "most stacked division" for 42 months.

This was AFTER he was #2 for so long. Do you see what he did in those 42 months of being #2? Holy shit, son! He went 6-4-1 with 0 finishes and only 2 top 10 wins over 5 years after fighting GSP. The man only had 3 top 10 wins in his fucking career by the time he left the UFC. Two of those top 10 wins came AFTER he fought GSP. Okami had him beat when he fought Silva, and has him more than doubled throughout their careers.

Cry it up, buttercup.

 

[Fioretti]

Career stats:

Jon Fitch - 32-8-2-1 (74.42% win rate) with 12 finishes (37.5% finish rate in 32 victories) over 18 years with 3 top 10 wins.

Yushin Okami - 37-14 (72.55% win rate) with 18 finishes (48.65% finish rate in 37 victories) over 17 years with 6 top 10 wins.

They're very comparable at almost every point I've compared them. How in the holy fuck is Fitch so much better? Please someone tell me. Thanks.

 

[Fioretti]

Both fighters 22 fights into their careers:

Fitch was 19-2-1 (86.36% win rate) with 11 finishes (57.89% finish rate in 19 victories) over 6 years with 1 top 10 win.

Okami was 19-3 (86.36% win rate) with 11 finishes (57.89% finish rate in 19 victories) over 4 years with 1 top 10 win.

Would you look at that? Weird, isn't it.

 

[Fioretti]

Guys? What happened?

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Career stats:

Jon Fitch - 32-8-2-1 (74.42% win rate) with 12 finishes (37.5% finish rate in 32 victories) over 18 years with 3 top 10 wins.

Yushin Okami - 37-14 (72.55% win rate) with 18 finishes (48.65% finish rate in 37 victories) over 17 years with 6 top 10 wins.

They're very comparable at almost every point I've compared them. How in the holy fuck is Fitch so much better? Please someone tell me. Thanks.

Your math is wrong again.

There's a standard way to calculate win percentage in pro sports, draws standardly count as .500, more than a loss, less than a win, and nc do not count. Even if we erroneously include the NC according to placate you, we'd count it similar to a draw. A fighter who wins 32 fights, loses 8, and has the equivalent of three draws has a winning percentage of 77.91%. That's the Fioretti-adjusted number. The real number would be 78.57%

Happily, you did calculate Okami's percentage correctly, because it was just the draws and the nc throwing you off.

 

[Barteh]

Career stats:

Jon Fitch - 32-8-2-1 (74.42% win rate) with 12 finishes (37.5% finish rate in 32 victories) over 18 years with 3 top 10 wins.

Yushin Okami - 37-14 (72.55% win rate) with 18 finishes (48.65% finish rate in 37 victories) over 17 years with 6 top 10 wins.

They're very comparable at almost every point I've compared them. How in the holy fuck is Fitch so much better? Please someone tell me. Thanks.

The only thing that matters is how they were doing at the moment right before the fight. Everything after that is irrelevant.

 

[ThunderStruck]

In their UFC careers:

Okami has 5 verified top 10 wins, 6 if Munoz was top 10. I can't confirm whether or not Munoz was top 10, so I'll leave him out.

Fitch has 3 verified top 10 wins.

And yet Fitch was the one ranked much higher throughout his career, both divisional and P4P. I wonder why, right?

Let me tell you : demographics.

It's much easier to earn ranked wins when theres so few fighters in your division. How many MW was there are the time in the ufc? Like 15? 20? There was 40+ WWs.

Thank god the ones who made the rankings and p4p rankings knew about this.

 

[pankrat]

This. Silva's best wins are probably his sub over Hendo, who was the PRIDE double champ and just went five rounds with Rampage, and Forest who just lost the LHW title.

Is Fitch one of the two best wins in GSP's career? I'd say he is around top5, just like Okami for Silva

Here we have two flawless performances vs credited tittle contenders, one ends by legit stoppage the other doesnt.
Fitch wasn't in another league compared to Okami to justify claiming that taking Fitch to the judges, as lopsided as it was, is a better win than by TKO.

Fitch was seen as a much more of a challenge for the champion but that's a different story.
It refflects the superiority of Silva's above his peers, especially at that point in time, coming off front kicking Belfort as opposed to GSP tapping to strikes to Matt Serra not that long ago.

Taking away such credit from Silva in order to downplay his performance and competition is dishonest and unfair

Okami's standing according to official Sherdog rankings:

2008 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-15631 - Okami #4

2009 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-17131 - Okami #2

2010 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-28893 - Okami #3

2011 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-33703 - Okami #3

2012 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-40091 - Okami #3

2013 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-52775 - Okami #4

--
Okami's ranked wins going into the Silva fight: 4
Fitch's ranked wins going into the GSP fight: 2

.
Odds for Fitch vs Okami match up;
https://www.bestfightodds.com/events/wsof-24-fitch-vs-okami-998

 

[Fioretti]

Your math is wrong again.

There's a standard way to calculate win percentage in pro sports, draws standardly count as .500, more than a loss, less than a win, and nc do not count. Even if we erroneously include the NC according to placate you, we'd count it similar to a draw. A fighter who wins 32 fights, loses 8, and has the equivalent of three draws has a winning percentage of 77.91%. That's the Fioretti-adjusted number. The real number would be 78.57%

Happily, you did calculate Okami's percentage correctly, because it was just the draws and the nc throwing you off.

Omitting NC's and giving half points for draws/ties is how it's done for team sports. MMA isn't a team sport. If a man goes 0-0-10 in MMA, he doesn't have a 50% win rate, he hasn't won a fucking fight.

The only thing that matters is how they were doing at the moment right before the fight. Everything after that is irrelevant.

I mean, it's only been posted and ignored about 10x or so, but sure, I'll show you again:

Fitch was 19-2-1 (86.36% win rate) with 11 finishes (57.89% finish rate in 19 victories) over 6 years in one weight class with 1 verified top 10 win - earned his shot by beating unranked UFC newcomer Chris Wilson.

Okami was 27-5 (84.38% win rate) with 14 finishes (51.85% finish rate in 27 victories) over 9 years across 3 weight classes with at least 4 verified top 10 wins - earned his shot by beating #4 ranked former title contender and multi-time former Pancrase Champion Nate Marquardt.

How is Fitch so many leagues ahead? Please elaborate.

And yet Fitch was the one ranked much higher throughout his career, both divisional and P4P. I wonder why, right?

Let me tell you : demographics.

It's much easier to earn ranked wins when theres so few fighters in your division. How many MW was there are the time in the ufc? Like 15? 20? There was 40+ WWs.

Thank god the ones who made the rankings and p4p rankings knew about this.

How did he earn his spot if he wasn't fighting ranked fighters? It doesn't make the division more stacked if the consensus #2 in the World has 3 fucking top 10 wins throughout his entire career. How did he attain this ranking? What did he do to get that spot? You want to downplay Okami and the MW division, but Okami was facing twice as many top 10s as Fitch, and couldn't hold the #2 spot as long. Why? The cumulative number of fighters in the WW division isn't helping your argument. Fitch wasn't fighting the top WWs consistently and still held his rank. How fucking dense can you be, bud?

 

[ThunderStruck]

You are really a special kind of stupid, aren't ya? Fitch wasn't even ranked #2 when he fought GSP. He had just entered the top 10. Lost "twice as less"? Let's not speak on the phrasing issues, but only the mathematical part. When Fitch was at 32 professional fights, he actually had 1 MORE loss than Okami, and 2 LESS wins. You want to say he had half the total cumulative losses than Okami did when they each had their title shot, right? Ok, that's true, but Fitch also had only 2/3rds of Okami's total fights. We saw what he did in his next 11 fights, and it's not very impressive in comparison:

At 32 fights into their careers:

Okami: 27-5 (84.38% win rate) with 14 finishes (51.85% finish rate) - 3-1 in his last 4 fights - with 4 top 10 wins
Fitch: 25-6-1 (78.12% win rate) with 11 finishes (44% finish rate) - 1-3 in his last 4 fights - with 3 top 10 wins

Fun facts:

- Fitch fought another 11 times over 5 years since the GSP fight, and didn't get one single finish - lowering his finish rate by over 13%.
- Fitch (while being the consensus #2 for 3.5 years) only added 6 more total wins to his resume in 5 years/11 fights - lowering his win rate by over 8%.
- Fitch (while being the consensus #2 for 3.5 years) only added 2 more top 10 wins to his resume in 5 years/11 fights - still less than what Okami had when he fought Silva.
- This is where Okami was at when he fought Silva for the title.
- This is where Fitch was at 5 years after facing GSP, after holding the #2 spot in the "most stacked division" for 42 months.

This was AFTER he was #2 for so long. Do you see what he did in those 42 months of being #2? Holy shit, son! He went 6-4-1 with 0 finishes and only 2 top 10 wins over 5 years after fighting GSP. The man only had 3 top 10 wins in his fucking career by the time he left the UFC. Two of those top 10 wins came AFTER he fought GSP. Okami had him beat when he fought Silva, and has him more than doubled throughout their careers.

Cry it up, buttercup.

You don't seem to understand the meaning of %. You act like a difference of 8% isn't a big deal.

Okami :
37 wins 14 losses
Win % : 72%

Fitch :
32 wins 8 losses (including a win vs Okami)
Win % : 80%

Fitch lost 1 fights out of 5 on average.
Okami lost 1 fights out of 3.5 average.

Fitch fought older too.

 

[Barteh]

Omitting NC's and giving half points for draws/ties is how it's done for team sports. MMA isn't a team sport. If a man goes 0-0-10 in MMA, he doesn't have a 50% win rate, he hasn't won a fucking fight.



I mean, it's only been posted and ignored about 10x or so, but sure, I'll show you again:

Fitch was 19-2-1 (86.36% win rate) with 11 finishes (57.89% finish rate in 19 victories) over 6 years in one weight class with 1 verified top 10 win - earned his shot by beating unranked UFC newcomer Chris Wilson.

Okami was 27-5 (84.38% win rate) with 14 finishes (51.85% finish rate in 27 victories) over 9 years across 3 weight classes with at least 4 verified top 10 wins - earned his shot by beating #4 ranked former title contender and multi-time former Pancrase Champion Nate Marquardt.

How is Fitch so many leagues ahead? Please elaborate.



How did he earn his spot if he wasn't fighting ranked fighters? It doesn't make the division more stacked if the consensus #2 in the World has 3 fucking top 10 wins throughout his entire career. How did he attain this ranking? What did he do to get that spot? You want to downplay Okami and the MW division, but Okami was facing twice as many top 10s as Fitch, and couldn't hold the #2 spot as long. Why? The cumulative number of fighters in the WW division isn't helping your argument. Fitch wasn't fighting the top WWs consistently and still held his rank. How fucking dense can you be, bud?

I was only pointing out that the other info you posted was quite irrelevant. I also don't think Fitch was "many leagues" ahead. Fitch was slightly ahead but Silva's performance was better. Which is why I rated the wins pretty much equal.

You're also overlooking the quality of their wins btw. Now I don't actually know if Fitch's wins were of a higher quality. But it does matter in ranking their strength.

Another thing I think is quite relevant and that actually favours Silva is that Okami was a bad matchup for Silva, who played into his weaknesses. While Fitch was a good matchup for GSP because he just keeps it standing against wrestlers and outboxes them most of the time.

 

[pankrat]

Yup thats the difference between fighting in a thin division and fighting in a stacked division, easier to rack up ranked wins when theres so few fighters.

Okami beat Swick, Marquardt and Lombard at their best, all of them went to make a run to the top5 in the allegedly much more stacked WW division right after losing to Okami.
You already saw what Okami himself did to Shields at WW.

Talk me about demograhics and aritmethics, I talk about fights in a fight forum.