Whey protein converting to glucose, insulin spikes, and Dr. John Berardi's response.

Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery.

Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.

Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

The pattern of muscle glycogen synthesis following glycogen-depleting exercise occurs in two phases. Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes. This rapid phase of muscle glycogen synthesis is characterised by an exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporter carrier protein-4 to the cell surface, leading to an increased permeability of the muscle membrane to glucose. Following this rapid phase of glycogen synthesis, muscle glycogen synthesis occurs at a much slower rate and this phase can last for several hours. Both muscle contraction and insulin have been shown to increase the activity of glycogen synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, it has been shown that muscle glycogen concentration is a potent regulator of glycogen synthase. Low muscle glycogen concentrations following exercise are associated with an increased rate of glucose transport and an increased capacity to convert glucose into glycogen.The highest muscle glycogen synthesis rates have been reported when large amounts of carbohydrate (1.0-1.85 g/kg/h) are consumed immediately post-exercise and at 15-60 minute intervals thereafter, for up to 5 hours post-exercise. When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis. The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response. However, when carbohydrate intake is high (>/=1.2 g/kg/h) and provided at regular intervals, a further increase in insulin concentrations by additional supplementation of protein and/or amino acids does not further increase the rate of muscle glycogen synthesis. Thus, when carbohydrate intake is insufficient (<1.2 g/kg/h), the addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins may be beneficial for muscle glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, ingestion of insulinotropic protein and/or amino acid mixtures might stimulate post-exercise net muscle protein anabolism. Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates. Furthermore, intestinal glucose absorption may also be a rate-limiting factor for muscle glycogen synthesis when large quantities (>1 g/min) of glucose are ingested following exercise.




The next question you need which basically eliminates the need to split hairs about molecular size is to ask what effect does increased glycogen resynthesis rates have on protein synthesis rates? Basically none.

Amino acids are the main nutrient signals for protein synthesis, NOT insulin. And speed when it comes to amino acids is important. Guess what also triggers an insulin response and actually eliminates cortisol....amino acids. IF you are worried so much about preventing catabolism then increasing rates of protein synthesis should be your number one priority. Insulin is mainly anti-catabolic in small amounts. Amino acids exert anabolic activity.

GLUT4 transporters were the basis for STWACoach's arguement that carbs were not needed PWO, if anyone here remembers him; they won't work without insulin, but PWO insulin sensitivity is high enough that very little is needed, anyways.
 
Glut4 is the most important as you just pointed out. He recommended carbs PWO just low GI
 
Type in PWO and his arguments come up a lot. Madmick and Monger as well.
 
Why would you do that? Yes and no. Some would be wasted but not all. Aminos are used first and foremost. To the small intestine it doesn't matter if it is coming with dextrose, or rice, aminos will be taken first and foremost.

All food has a use, and waste ratio. Come on we all know that. Speed of this insulin spike will have nothing to do with amino absorption. The first 30-60 minutes is set in motion by physiological rules that aren't maligned or altered due to ingestion of certain types of carbs, causing a supposed response, that is already there.

Amino acids are the main nutrient signals for protein synthesis, NOT insulin. And speed when it comes to amino acids is important. Guess what also triggers an insulin response and actually eliminates cortisol....amino acids.

I wasnt talking about insulin aiding amino absorbtion. I was referring to it restoring glycogen in hopes to spare amino acids.
 
And obviously you didn't read the study in its entirety or you would know that you barking up a tree that has already been climbed. Its not needed..................
 
And obviously you didn't read the study in its entirety or you would know that you barking up a tree that has already been climbed. Its not needed..................

Ahhh...I see now. I have read recently that oatmeal might be better in terms of a PW carb dut to its quick digestability, do you believe that this might be more beneficial than simple carbs that would provide an insulin spike?
 
Carbs PWO and what I think have nothing to do with digestability. The "spike" isn't needed so really what differance does it matter if you take a high or low GI carb?

You and your insulin spikes are being misunderstood.
 
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