Where does Wilder rank among all time great HWs?

[Codpiece]

marciano doesn't rank high imo...to me, marciano ranks above wlad only because wlad's era was the absolute lowpoint in hw boxing history. but look at the marciano era...rocky beat two over-the-hill light heavies in charles and moore, and many think charles WON the first fight. he beat walcott who was the oldest man at the time to ever hold the title...and up until the ko, ole-ass walcott was handing rocky his ass...and rocky beat lastarza. beating competition that is made up of mostly old guys and mostly lhw's to me, is not that impressive.

i don't blame rocky for the poor level of comp during his era...it was post-ww II. boxing was in bad shape back then....that's why chalres and walcott fought FOUR TIMES back to back to back for the title...there was nobody else around til rocky showed up...but just as is happening today, eventually we saw a revival in boxing starting with patterson....now, if rocky had stuck around and beaten patterson, id' say he ranks higher. but he retired just before patterson made his move for the hw title.

yeah, rocky also beat joe louis...but louis was like 70 years old.

Well I didn't give Rocky much credit for beating an ancient Louis.

I personally consider Louis to be the best HW we've seen, comfortably ahead of Rocky. He was well past it when they fought.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Usually we wait until after a fighter's career is over to rank him all-time, but these days we have more information than in days gone by about fighters, so we're in a position to make a reasonable estimate about how a modern fighter would have done against the old-school. Given the fact that AJ and povetkin have unofficially seceded the #1 spot to wilder, this is how i rank deontay among HW atg.

1- Tyson
2- Ali
3- Lewis
4- Holmes
5- WILDER
6- Foreman
7- Louis
8- Frazier
9- Liston
10- Johnson

Also, bear in mind wilder's ranking can/will go up or down depending on what happens over the course of his career.

He’d knock out all of those guys easy. He'd struggle with herbie hide though. Lucky hes not on that list

 

[spacetime]

does anybody really believe foreman, louis, frazier or johnson would beat wilder?....

Yeeeeeees. Maybe not Frazier..., (Weak chin)

 

[Large Hound 77]

Who has he beaten to be considered even top 10?

 

[Philtard]

Lol. He doesnt. Neither does Joshua.

That's silly.

 

[Philtard]

does anybody really believe foreman, louis, frazier or johnson would beat wilder?...c'mon. i know boxing is steeped in history and tradition. but let's move forward instead of staying in the past. lebron is recognized as an atg, probably better than jordan...because he is. that's because basketball analysts and fans look at the data in an objective way and come to objective conclusions. we should be able to do the same in boxing...of course johnson, louis, etc will always have more historical significance than wilder...but that has nothing to do with how well they would do against him head to head.

You think all time great lists are worked out based on the fighters they could theoretically beat?

Well, i think that's your problem right there. Its based on legacy and career definement and titles.

Wilder AND Joshua are nowhere near it..

This is absolutely mind blowingly mental. And you are an obvious deluded wilder dick rider.

 

[Philtard]

ok, let's say for arguments sake it IS by resume...tell me why louis or johnson or liston would rank above wilder...BASED ON RESUME ONLY

its what happens when you give small-minded people a little iota of power...thinks the boxing forum in this lil corner of the internet is his personal dictatorship.

This is blatantly not true. Puo3 gives as good as he gets but he doesnt go too far. Maybe others do. But here you're talking shit.

 

[TownBiz]

You think all time great lists are worked out based on the fighters they could theoretically beat?

Well, i think that's your problem right there. Its based on legacy and career definement and titles.

Wilder AND Joshua are nowhere near it..

This is absolutely mind blowingly mental. And you are an obvious deluded wilder dick rider.

dude, if you talk to 10 guys about atg lists, you get 10 different criteria. obviously my list is a MIX of fighters' legacies and how i think they match up with others.

jack johnson was a legacy choice...he overcame incredible obstacles in a horrible, almost unthinkably oppressive era to become the hw champ. think of the mental and emotional pressure he was constantly under and still he would dispose all these great white hopes with ease and swag. but, if you ask me, if you sent a guy like oliver mccall back in a time-machine to the johnson era, mccall beats johnson...because boxing has advanced so much in the past 100 years...but would i ever rank mccall over johnson? hell no! johnson's legacy far outweighs any other factors.

liston is also on the list based on his legacy...liston had a great career, even though he's generally overlooked in most rankings because the ali fights hurt his reputation. but liston's career really brought to light how boxing politics robs the public of a true hw champ, because patterson was so protected....he was the uncrowned champ for years and would have been up there with the top hws on the list if he didn't get his shot so late in his career.

now, i can see some people gettin butthurt because holyfield is not on the list...but to me, holyfield is another fighter who is loved for his legacy....a religious man, came from a lower weight class to compete with the top hw's of the 90s which was an era second only to the 70's in terms of the quality of fighters, fought his ass off and more in every fight...but holy's popularity far overshadowed his actual accomplishments in the ring...holy went 1-2 with bowe, 0-2 with lewis and 1-1 with moorer....yeah, he beat a faded version of tyson...but i don't count that just like i don't count spinks beating ali or marciano beating louis....and remember holy-bert cooper? that was the fight that convinced me that a prime tyson obliterates holyfield. Holy was maybe the greatest cruiserweight ever, but as a hw, he's not in my top ten all time.

 

[TownBiz]

Well I didn't give Rocky much credit for beating an ancient Louis.

I personally consider Louis to be the best HW we've seen, comfortably ahead of Rocky. He was well past it when they fought.

first, lemme say that i think louis was a great fighter...on my list, there's nobody who came before louis who is ahead of him, so obviously he was the greatest up to his era. to me, louis was actually ahead of his time...

but louis had some serious flaws too...here's ali and cus d'amato talking about louis.

 

[TownBiz]

Who has he beaten to be considered even top 10?

who did joe louis beat to be considered top 10? who did johnson beat and who did liston beat? not tryna denigrate the past greats...i'm saying, if you're objective, they belong in the top 10 based on how they performed against their level of comp....so does wilder.

 

[TownBiz]

Well I didn't give Rocky much credit for beating an ancient Louis.

I personally consider Louis to be the best HW we've seen, comfortably ahead of Rocky. He was well past it when they fought.

my comment about marciano and louis was a reference to this scene in the movie coming to america.

 

[CastletonSnob]

Who has he beaten to be considered even top 10?

Who has he beaten to be considered even top 30?

 

[CastletonSnob]

Also, LOL @ Tyson being ranked higher than Ali and Lewis.

 

[TownBiz]

Also, LOL @ Tyson being ranked higher than Ali and Lewis.

prime tyson...the greatest hw of all time.

 

[Philtard]

dude, if you talk to 10 guys about atg lists, you get 10 different criteria. obviously my list is a MIX of fighters' legacies and how i think they match up with others.

jack johnson was a legacy choice...he overcame incredible obstacles in a horrible, almost unthinkably oppressive era to become the hw champ. think of the mental and emotional pressure he was constantly under and still he would dispose all these great white hopes with ease and swag. but, if you ask me, if you sent a guy like oliver mccall back in a time-machine to the johnson era, mccall beats johnson...because boxing has advanced so much in the past 100 years...but would i ever rank mccall over johnson? hell no! johnson's legacy far outweighs any other factors.

liston is also on the list based on his legacy...liston had a great career, even though he's generally overlooked in most rankings because the ali fights hurt his reputation. but liston's career really brought to light how boxing politics robs the public of a true hw champ, because patterson was so protected....he was the uncrowned champ for years and would have been up there with the top hws on the list if he didn't get his shot so late in his career.

now, i can see some people gettin butthurt because holyfield is not on the list...but to me, holyfield is another fighter who is loved for his legacy....a religious man, came from a lower weight class to compete with the top hw's of the 90s which was an era second only to the 70's in terms of the quality of fighters, fought his ass off and more in every fight...but holy's popularity far overshadowed his actual accomplishments in the ring...holy went 1-2 with bowe, 0-2 with lewis and 1-1 with moorer....yeah, he beat a faded version of tyson...but i don't count that just like i don't count spinks beating ali or marciano beating louis....and remember holy-bert cooper? that was the fight that convinced me that a prime tyson obliterates holyfield. Holy was maybe the greatest cruiserweight ever, but as a hw, he's not in my top ten all time.

How do you get Deontay on that lost though? How? It seems more a lost of fighters you like and have respected their achievements. Deontay is wbc belt holder. Thats a great achievement. But you're talking about a hundred years of history and putting fucking deontay on that list. Deontay is wbc belt holder. Good achievement. Now compare that to the one hundred years of history and other fighters achievement in that time frame.

C'mon dude I'm not even shitting on Deontay. But your biase is pretty obvious.

 

[Philtard]

prime tyson...the greatest hw of all time.

Most notorious. Most explosive most dangerous and most terrifying. I can see why. But he ruined his own legacy a bit and has some suspicious losses. If Tyson hadn't of gone off the rails then yes. But he went a bit mental.

Ali is no1 without any doubt imo. Not just for his boxing and even then you could make a debate for it. But the man was a symbol and cultural phenomenon that crossed over into evey day life and politics. Muhammed was an influential game changer during a hard era.

He cemented his legacy for the stuff he also did outside the ring. He was pretty complete.

 

[TownBiz]

How do you get Deontay on that lost though? How? It seems more a lost of fighters you like and have respected their achievements. Deontay is wbc belt holder. Thats a great achievement. But you're talking about a hundred years of history and putting fucking deontay on that list. Deontay is wbc belt holder. Good achievement. Now compare that to the one hundred years of history and other fighters achievement in that time frame.

C'mon dude I'm not even shitting on Deontay. But your biase is pretty obvious.

so, what's the problem you have with deontay?...is it you just don't like the man personally? are you biased AGAINST him? why is it so inconceivable to you that he could be one of the greatest of all time? is it because he's still an active fighter and you believe in assessing a fighters career in hindsight?

give me a scenario of how you think, say lennox lewis would beat deontay...deontay being 6-7 and having ruinous one-punch ko power.

 

[Philtard]

so, what's the problem you have with deontay?...is it you just don't like the man personally? are you biased AGAINST him? why is it so inconceivable to you that he could be one of the greatest of all time? is it because he's still an active fighter and you believe in assessing a fighters career in hindsight?

give me a scenario of how you think, say lennox lewis would beat deontay...deontay being 6-7 and having ruinous one-punch ko power.

Oh man. Dude. I didnt say anything bad about deontay. Like at all.

Lennox would knock Deontay out cold. He'd jab his face off and then jump on him. But with clinical and effective finishing.

Holy moly.

 

[Philtard]

so, what's the problem you have with deontay?...is it you just don't like the man personally? are you biased AGAINST him? why is it so inconceivable to you that he could be one of the greatest of all time? is it because he's still an active fighter and you believe in assessing a fighters career in hindsight?

give me a scenario of how you think, say lennox lewis would beat deontay...deontay being 6-7 and having ruinous one-punch ko power.

I think the point is, is that you are shitting on all of these fighters by claiming a person who is yet to finish their career and arguably comes from one of the worst eras in heavy weight boxing deserves to go on the ATG list because you think he could beat a few of them..

...

If I said Joshua should go on that list you'd call me fucking mental and you'd be right.

 

[TownBiz]

Most notorious. Most explosive most dangerous and most terrifying. I can see why. But he ruined his own legacy a bit and has some suspicious losses. If Tyson hadn't of gone off the rails then yes. But he went a bit mental.

Ali is no1 without any doubt imo. Not just for his boxing and even then you could make a debate for it. But the man was a symbol and cultural phenomenon that crossed over into evey day life and politics. Muhammed was an influential game changer during a hard era.

He cemented his legacy for the stuff he also did outside the ring. He was pretty complete.

see, this is the problem with boxing...people can't just stick to the subject of BOXING...i know ali was a global cultural icon...i know he's the idol of billions. he's MY idol ...from childhood to now! he not only shook up the world, he also CHANGED the world...and i don't just mean professional sports. ali is maybe the most important political figure of the past 50 years even though he was not a politician.

but lemme explain something to you, guy. I have all the old magazines from my uncles, from collectors shops, going back to the 1960's...if you read the articles written by contemporary boxing writers of that era about ali, they don't praise the man...they don't recognize him as a great fighter or as a standout...they barely even acknowledge his influence outside of boxing. he's treated with a lotta rancor and pretty much like he's not any different from the other fighters in that era....same with boxing magazines in the 1980's about sugar ray or about floyd in the 00's. how is that different from wilder today?...im saying, if you recognize a fighter is head and shoulders and waist above the rest, acknowledge his greatness NOW...why wait 15 years after he's old and retired to recognize him? there's a reason AJ is ducking wilder and povetkin had to take PEDs for him...it's because they see he's a great fighter.