Where does Chuck Liddell ranks All-Time in UFC LHW division?

Andy Capp said:
Chuck was from a time when his biggest challenge was a math teacher. For the time and p4p he's one of the all time greats. But now, try to imagine him against more recent competition and you will have your answer.
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Liddell is 1-0 against Jeff Monson.

Liddell is 1-0 against Kevin Randleman.

Liddell is 1-0 against Guy Mezger.

Liddell is 1-0 against Murilo Bustamante.

Liddell is 1-0 against Vitor Belfort.

Liddell is 2-0 against Renato Sobral.

Liddell is 1-1 against Jeremy Horn.

Liddell is 1-0 against Alistair Overeem.

Liddell is 2-1 against Randy Couture.

Liddell is 1-0 against Wanderlei Silva.

Liddell is 2-1 against Ortiz.

In MMA fights, Alistair Overeem is a lot tougher than any math teacher that has ever existed. I don't see why you would mention Rich Franklin and not mention any of the assassins that I put in this list.

Rich Franklin is 1-0 against Liddell.
 
HHJ said:
You know. There was talk of maybe having Chuck vs Kimbo before it was clear Chuck's chin was completley gone. That would have been so much fun.
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yeah man, I would have paid top dollar for that PPV. That would have been probably one of the most watched fights ever at the time Kimbo was in EliteXC
 
If we're talking skill/efficacy it's hard to say. His standup defense and mobility was lacking but in his prime he was a versatile tank who committed atrocities against some very dangerous fighters. He had a very unique. iconic style.

Legacy wise, top 3-5. Him, Wanderlei, Slampage and Shogun were THE dudes at LHW for awhile. Honorable mention to Tito and Randy.
 
You gotta have him in the top 3. Chuck's style would translate quite well to today's LHW division.
 
IloveTHIS said:
Because anyone with a brain and two pairs of eyes knows with out the slightest question DC would walk through everyone else
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And anybody that can read would see the topic didn't ask for the most talented or who would win a tournament. And that still isn't a guarantee. Keep him on the outside and work the body. In a sport where we've watched a world class kickboxer get out classed by a fundamentally flawed shadow boxer, there's never a sure fire anything.
 
HHJ said:
Despite losing to him,youd still have to put Wanderlei above Chuck. Wanderlei beat more top LHWs,stayed around longer etc
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Unless I'm mistaken, you and I have already had this conversation.

Liddell is 1-0 against Jeff Monson.

Liddell is 1-0 against Kevin Randleman.

Liddell is 1-0 against Guy Mezger.

Liddell is 1-0 against Murilo Bustamante.

Liddell is 1-0 against Vitor Belfort.

Liddell is 2-0 against Renato Sobral.

Liddell is 1-1 against Jeremy Horn.

Liddell is 1-0 against Alistair Overeem.

Liddell is 2-1 against Randy Couture.

Liddell is 1-0 against Wanderlei Silva.

Liddell is 2-1 against Ortiz.

In my opinion, Liddell (in his best condition) would still be competitive against the most elite assassins in the 2023 version of the Light Heavyweight Division. I have to wonder if Wanderlei (in his best condition) would be competitive against the most elite assassins in the 2023 version of the Light Heavyweight Division.

I won't say that Wanderlei (in his best condition) has 0% chance against the most elite assassins in the 2023 version of the Light Heavyweight Division. That would be psychotic. However, I won't make any bets on it (not even Sherdog bets). We would have to see a few MMA fights in order to decide what Wanderlei (in his best condition) will do in the future.

In my opinion, Liddell (in his best condition) and Wanderlei (in his best condition) have a gargantuan amount of combined accomplishments in the Light Heavyweight Division.

Liddell is the former UFC Light Heavyweight World Champion (with 4 title defences).

Wanderlei is the former Pride FC Middleweight (which is 183 lb - 205 lb) Champion.

Also, Wanderlei captured the 2003 Pride FC Middleweight (which is 183 lb - 205 lb) Grand Prix Tournament.

It's difficult for me to decide which assassin accomplished more. Their accomplishments and achievements might be exactly equal.
 
Pequeño Corey said:
It’s important to be the best in your era. Chuck was the clear #1 in UFC, but you had those other guys across the pond that could beat him, so it gets weird. If we’re looking solely at UFC career, he’s #2 or #3 for me. DC has that same issue in that he was always #2 to Jones. I don’t really count DC’s “defense” where he got headkicked and retained his belt, so Chuck edges him out in terms of title defenses.

It all boils down to how you rate a title run with wins over Gus, Rumble, and Volkan to Horn, Randy, Sobral, and Ortiz. It’s hard to compare quality of competition from different eras, imo. Rumble was dangerous, but beatable if you could avoid one of his missiles and make it past the first round. Gus had the fight of his life vs. Jones but was hit or miss outside of that. I still think for their era, Randy and Tito were solid wins, and both were champions. I gotta lean Chuck here, but understand where someone would rate DC’s competition higher. It’s all highly subjective.

Having lived through both, I gotta say that Chuck’s was more exciting and just felt more remarkable. No denying he was a bigger star than DC.

Yea, I think I’m settled on #2.
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Very well said, totally agree.
 
Since this is UFC only, here is my list:

5. DC
4. Evans
3. Belfort
2. Liddell
1. Jones *

Jones has an * because he was caught cheating. Most of the PrideFC guys had a lot more fights in Pride compared to UFC. Difficult for them to beat out resumes from fighters who fought most of their careers in the UFC. If we could add in complete careers the list would look a lot different.
 
Bullitt68 said:
Top 5 and it's not a question. Where specifically he ranks, that's an open question. Wanderlei's PRIDE run was epic, but Chuck's time as a top dog in the UFC was pretty damn impressive, too, especially considering before he was champ he was knocking off the best the division had to offer while Tito was refusing to fight him. It also matters if we're talking about resume or skill, i.e. his career wins and accomplishments versus how he stacks up prime versus prime against the best guys in the division's history. Either way, if you don't think that he's near the top of the list then you just don't know what it was like to experience the era of The Iceman.
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See, I am very biased towards the early days, but I cannot say that Iceman is top 3. The reason behind is Rampage. In Chuck's prime Rampage beat him IN HIS GAME, and you knew it was coming just from how Page was cutting angles and hurting Chuck at will. Then you remember Shogun's run in 2005, Henderson achievements in 205, Machida run... Its too hard... I give up :D
 
Glove said:
Good to see you Bullit, i remember you from years back talking about Pancrase.
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Good to see you, too. Anything old school is likely to bring me out :)

Glove said:
Where would you put Quintin Jackson in regards to above or below Chuck LIddell.
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MarcusAuerelius said:
See, I am very biased towards the early days, but I cannot say that Iceman is top 3. The reason behind is Rampage. In Chuck's prime Rampage beat him IN HIS GAME, and you knew it was coming just from how Page was cutting angles and hurting Chuck at will.
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Rampage was Chuck's kryptonite. Stylistically, and with his iron chin, Rampage was Chuck's nightmare. If we're talking careers, I'd put Chuck ahead of Rampage because his run was more impressive to me. But if we're talking head-to-head, I want to believe that the Chuck that beat Randy at UFC 52 had the quickness and the conditioning to take Rampage, but with an 0-2 record against him, it's impossible to rank Chuck ahead of Rampage head-to-head.

MarcusAuerelius said:
Then you remember Shogun's run in 2005, Henderson achievements in 205, Machida run... Its too hard... I give up
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Machida's "run" wasn't a run at all. And Henderson achieved very little at 205. A case can be made for Shogun's two performances - which, for all intents and purposes, are two wins - against Machida plus his 2005 GP run putting him over Chuck's UFC tenure, but I'd still favor Chuck because of his consistency. Head-to-head, meanwhile, I think that Chuck at his best beats all three of them. Machida would give him the most trouble, and I could see him stealing a boring decision from Chuck, but I'd still pick Chuck with his durability and his power. Shogun's style, much like Wanderlei's, was very aggressive with not a lot of defense. Considering how Rogerio outboxed Shogun, I can't imagine Shogun surviving 25 minutes standing in front of Chuck without getting put to sleep. And Chuck in his prime had a chin, unlike the Chuck who Shogun beat, so I also can't imagine Shogun putting Chuck down, especially without getting knocked out first. And Henderson would've been too small to do anything to Chuck wrestling-wise, and while he had big power, Chuck's chin would've nullified it, plus his vastly superior striking would've ensured that Hendo would've been in for a very long and painful night.

As I said, the conversations are different between career comparisons on the one hand and head-to-head match-ups on the other. But either way, Chuck is Top 5 for me no question.
 
Top 5 in terms of what he did for the sport, but in terms of actual accomplishments and skill, he’s not even top 20.
 
I’ve always thought that chuck sucked

No kicks, no wrassling, flat footed, hands down, no head movement and a right hand - he used to have a decent chin

A mid rated 2023 LHW would calf kick him into retirement while he leans heavy on that left leg with his base spread like an eagle
let’s not get into what someone like jiri, hill or glover would do to him
Never blocked a punch and sucker for an overhand right
just my op
He was never that good
 
Iceman was THE Guy

He transcended the sport. I remember seeing Chuck Liddell on Entourage. It was cool as shit.

Tito also crossed over big time into movies. I remember that Jet Li movie. Quite awesome.

Those guys really helped propel MMA to the next level.

It will always be the Liddell-Tito-Couture triangle for me.

Machida era was cool too, despite being short. Machida VS Shogun 1 is still one of my favorite fights of all time. I was standing the entire duration of the fight. I was celebrating for Shogun after the final bell... before it was announced for Machida.

Jones making quick work of those 2, and others... was quite shocking. Too bad he stained his legacy with repeated steroid busts, and legal trouble.
 
For me, personally, im ranking the top 5 in terms of career and strength of schedule.

1. Jon Jones
2. Daniel Cormier
3. Chuck Liddell
4. Tito Ortiz
5. Quintin (Rampage) Jackson
 
chuck liddell, the ice man, blue shorts, is one of the mythical, legendary LHWs of the UFC without a doubt. can't think of another LHW with solid wins over Randleman, Mezger, Bustamante, Vitor Belfort, Babalu, Tito, Randy, Horn, all in their primes too. He's definitely in the top five. It's got to be, in terms of pure dominance, Jon Jones, Shogun, Randy, Chuck, Rampage, something like that. I'd place him number 4 in a hypothetical top 5.
 
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