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Where do you place Leon Edwards in GOAT WW list?

OldBoy91 said:
Somewhere in the 4-6 range.

He beat what were the consensus #1 and 2 welterweights in his era. Proving that he was #1 all along and they were 2 and 3 at best.

His legacy this far is built on the 2 Usman wins, and now the Colby win, and after that his resume falls off a bit but is still underrated by the casuals on Sherdog.

Dominated Diaz for 24 minutes 30 seconds and people only remember the fight for a single punch Diaz landed.

Dominated RDA, former LW champ and had only lost to Usman and Xokby at 170 to that point.

Beat Cerrone. Not in his prime but certainly before he was washed. People falk about the score being 48-47 but I think that's harsh on Leon. Fight was much more one sided than that.

Beat Luque but gets no credit because most of Luquesbbig wins came after he lost to Leon.

Beat Gunnar Nelson by actually grappling with him the majority of the fight.

The forgotten win against Tumenov. This may be Leon's 3rd best win after Kamaru and Colby. He's a really underrated guy that was let go by the UFC wrongly imo. Leon is the only guy to ever finish him and he's 7-0 since that loss.
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Bro how is Colby the consensus 2nd best welterweight of his era
 
OldBoy91 said:
Interesting. What holes do you mean outside of the cardio issue?

I can only think of one thing he does technique wise that I don't like, other than that he seems pretty flawless to me.

I have some concerns about his gameplanning sometimes like his habit of grappling with grapplers, but I'm struggling to think of holes in his overall game.
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The way he pot shots seems to be his biggest issue imo, he makes up for it with an effective clinch game though which has been enough against wrestlers and im assuming he has sneaky strength since Usman and Colby didnt like wrestling too much.

Guys like Lawler and Condit were able to overwhelm fellow strikers by Volume and ability to string effective combinations. They didn't have the perfect straights and kicks like Leon but I also don't think they'd struggle with it because they'd make up for it in more effective ways (IMO)
 
OldBoy91 said:
Everybody thought he would be champ if not for Usman.

Who would you have put above him? Maia? Wonderboy?
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There are tons of guys with better wins than colby. Belal, Gilbert, wonderboy, rda, leon himself. not that that’s in order, I’m just saying all those guys are somewhere above him in my opinion
 
Liverkick-king56 said:
The way he pot shots seems to be his biggest issue imo, he makes up for it with an effective clinch game though which has been enough against wrestlers and im assuming he has sneaky strength since Usman and Colby didnt like wrestling too much.

Guys like Lawler and Condit were able to overwhelm fellow strikers by Volume and ability to string effective combinations. They didn't have the perfect straights and kicks like Leon but I also don't think they'd struggle with it because they'd make up for it in more effective ways (IMO)
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I do wish he'd sit down on his punches more and throw combinations more than he does. But first and foremost he puts defense first. It's why he has such a high % landed and such low % absorbed stats. Its worked out so far for him in his career. He was throwing with more venom against Belal when they fought and almost got him out of there a few times, but that fight was an anomaly.

His only real loss (not a DQ or Robbery) was against Usman, I'm not convinced any of these guys like Condit or Lawler would have beat Leon. Generally guys that have 20+ fights with only one loss are generational greats, or they are can crushers. I think Edwards has shown at this point that he is definitely no can crusher.

Lawler would have a better shot because he had a decent anti wrestling game, I think Condit would have been controlled on the ground if he started getting the better of the standup.

I do think if Leon loses it will be against a striker though. I'm really concerned how loopy he throws his lead check hook. He throws it so needlessly wide exposing his entire front foot side, thats how Diaz was able to catch him right down the middle.
 
OldBoy91 said:
I do wish he'd sit down on his punches more and throw combinations more than he does. But first and foremost he puts defense first. It's why he has such a high % landed and such low % absorbed stats. Its worked out so far for him in his career. He was throwing with more venom against Belal when they fought and almost got him out of there a few times, but that fight was an anomaly.

His only real loss (not a DQ or Robbery) was against Usman, I'm not convinced any of these guys like Condit or Lawler would have beat Leon. Generally guys that have 20+ fights with only one loss are generational greats, or they are can crushers. I think Edwards has shown at this point that he is definitely no can crusher.

Lawler would have a better shot because he had a decent anti wrestling game, I think Condit would have been controlled on the ground if he started getting the better of the standup.

I do think if Leon loses it will be against a striker though. I'm really concerned how loopy he throws his lead check hook. He throws it so needlessly wide exposing his entire front foot side, thats how Diaz was able to catch him right down the middle.
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Hopefully the Belal fight and Shavkat fight can tell us how he deals with some of these issues at a high level and against men with good cardio plus volume I believe both men possess the footwork to keep up with Leon but the power of the champ keeps it interesting.

I also find it funny Condit could just get wrestled to hell and it wouldn't even be an outrageous outcome.
 
GSP
Hughes
Diaz
Lawler
Usman
Hendricks
Woodley
Edwards
Carlos Newton
Jake Sheilds
Jon Fitch

I dunno
 
I feel like he has a ways to go in order to be a GOAT, a title defense against Usman and Colby isn't enough.
 
4-7 imo

Top 3 is objectively GSP then marty or hughes

4-7 you could imo have woodley, Lawler, Hendricks, Leon and make a case for any of them.

I’d have it Woodley, Lawler, Leon, Hendricks though
 
JustOnce said:
Just wondering what Sherdog thinks about Leon's place amongst the greats at WW division.

Leon's 14-2 in UFC, with wins over Covington, Usman twice, Nate, RDA, Luque, Gunnar, Cerrone and Tumenov.

Personally, if Covington didn't look so utter dogshit, and I have always rated Covington highly before he went full heel, I would have easier time ranking Leon but he looked as bad as anyone in the history of MMA title fights. I wouldn't necessarily be in disagreement if one would argue that Aldana looked better against Nunez than Covington did against Leon.

Personally, it's GSP above everyone else and then Usman in the second place. I'm not sure where to place Leon. Leon's accomplishments are amazing, but I don't necessarily think Leon beats pre-USADA Hendricks, pre-USADA lawler, prime Rory, prime Wonderboy, prime Covington, prime Usman, prime Woodley, prime Condit, prime Alves, prime Shields, prime Fitch, and that list in my opinion would be very long. I'm not sure if Leon could get on his bike and wrestle his way to victory against Nick either.

When I try to evaluate a fighter, I try to look at their peak talent ability/skills and accomplishments. Leon's got the sterling record, win streak, and a win over arguably the best two WWs of his time. But his skillset wise, I don't necessarily rate it higher than the aforementioned fighters. I don't think Leon beats Shavkat, either.

Leon's not half the finisher what people make him out to be. Outside the hail mary of all hail mary against Usman, he only has on other (t)ko in his entire ufc run and even then that was kinda flukish. The other one was just wierd as hell stoppage with a second left in the fight. He's a clean, effective striker, but nothing more. But overall, he's a hell of a fighter.

Where would you rank Leon amongst WW all-time greats?
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Lol, what a bad take.

Leon isn’t exciting and he doesn’t have a top3 resume yet, but you’re greatly underestimating him as a fighter.

He easily beats guys like Alves, Nick, Fitch, Confit and Shields. I would also favour him against Rory and Woodley. Prime Hendricks, Lawler and Colby are tough stylistic fights for him. He already beat a prime Usman.

I would actually give a good chance for him to beat GSP too. GSP liked to stay on the outside and use his jab and kicks. Leon does the same, but better and he’s longer than GSP. Leon has great TDD and amazing distance management, so shooting double legs out of from the open ain’t gone work well with him. Even if GSP would take him down, Leon would just get up and continue outstriking him from the outside.

Skill wise Leon is an amazing fighter, he’s not really exciting though. Neither was GSP to be honest
 
IneedSometop said:
4-7 imo

Top 3 is objectively GSP then marty or hughes

4-7 you could imo have woodley, Lawler, Hendricks, Leon and make a case for any of them.

I’d have it Woodley, Lawler, Leon, Hendricks though
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GSP
Usman
Hughes
Woodley
Leon
Lawler
Hendricks

Is the correct order
 
KowboyMMA said:
GSP





Hughes
Usman


Edwards
Woodley
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Agree with the spacing.

Usman was a notable champ. Woodley, no. The sit with the back on the cage was the most limited skillset of a champ.

Edwards hasn't done enough yet. If he beats Shavkat, then there's a strong argument he's over Usman.
 
To be a Divisional GOAT

1) Win title
2) Defend said title against ranked opponents more times then any previous champion before you.

3) Thats it .
 
GrantB13 said:
Inevitable thread. Every new champ is top whatever of all time. Guaranteed.
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Think that comes with the sport still being relatively "new". There hasn't been that much time to build up a lot of history and put things into perspective. So everyone who gets a couple title defenses you can start having a reasonable convo about where they rank historically in their div.
 
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