When you rate something it's all about relativity...why do you think Obamacare is so horrible?

[Big Nasty Edison]

But what if Marco's pizza doesn't do that and sells WAY BETTER pie for less than Poppa? I'd rather have free market insurance, no government involvement and pay a specific healthcare tax to cover the poor. It'd be more honest.

But in a capitalist free market, the hospitals and health insurance companies would only need to worry about making the highest amount of profits possible, right? What incentive would there be to keep things "affordable"? Affordable and "charging as much as we can without crossing the threshold into unattainable" are two different things.

The argument that "competition between companies would drive costs down" doesn't really hold any weight IMO given that the business is still about squeezing as much out of us all for profit.

 

[Imalive]

But in a capitalist free market, the hospitals and health insurance companies would only need to worry about making the highest amount of profits possible, right? What incentive would there be to keep things "affordable"? Affordable and "charging as much as we can without crossing the threshold into unattainable" are two different things.

The argument that "competition between companies would drive costs down" doesn't really hold any weight IMO given that the business is still about squeezing as much out of us all for profit.

People are stupid and will believe anything.

 

[lilelvis]

You are an idiot then. You think if health insurance was unregulated by the government shit would be cheaper and more people would have access to healthcare?

I never understood how people could be so stupid as to want this. Why the fuck do you think shit is so expensive now?

You think Obama was like "fuck this cheap and accessible insurance! I'm going to create a plan to make shit more expensive!"?[/QUOTE
The same interstate insurance regulations existed before the ACA. The government was fucking up the market then too. It's the insurance lobby, get it? Corrupt government, corrupt corps.

The ACA just made it easier for them. Now we are FORCED to buy their product.

 

[Rational Poster]

Which major corporation is it you work for, that uses Cigna?

Like I'm going to tell Sherdog where I work.

 

[Drenalin]

Like I'm going to tell Sherdog where I work.

That's fine. I was only asking because my insurance guy told me that Cigna was an insurance company geared toward self employed & small businesses. I'm not saying major corporations don't use Cigna, I've just never heard of that

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Like I'm going to tell Sherdog where I work.

You forgot that we don't work, all the left leaning posters are just paid Soros plants.

 

[Pwent]

it raised costs and reduced quality

the only difference is it allowed people with preexisting conditions and FORCED people to buy it


obamacare is a good idea in an idealistic theory. its universal health care run by the free market. its the only way to get people covered who have pre existing conditions, you cant cover pre existing conditions and NOT have a mandate/penalty forcing people to buy it, or nobody would buy it until the ambulance is on the way. so the idea is to have a mandate, but give people the option to choose what insurance they want, depending on the free market to give us lower prices and better quality.

but the market doesnt work well with captive customers and monopolies. which happen under our current system where you HAVE to buy the product and health insurance companies are limited to what states they operate in, allowing monopolistic practices in certain areas. i cant buy cheaper health insurance from a competitor in another state. this turned into a scam for health insurance companies where they have a monopoly over captive customers, they can charge me whatever they want because I have to buy it and they have a limited amount of competitors who also jack up the price

im 27 years old, i pay 257 a month for a bronze plan with a $5000 deductible. obama said i could keep my plan and could get health insurance for less than my cell phone plan

 

[Pwent]

So I'll ask again...Obamacare sucks compare to what?

What we had before was better that had 20 million less insured people because some people's prices increased?

>force people to buy insurance at a higher cost
>these people couldve bought insurance before but didnt want to

wow, what a great system

 

[Imalive]

>force people to buy insurance at a higher cost
>these people couldve bought insurance before but didnt want to

wow, what a great system

So what America had before that had 20 million less insured people was better? Or was the plan Republicans came up with and then ultimately decided keeping Obamacare better?

 

[Imalive]

it raised costs and reduced quality

the only difference is it allowed people with preexisting conditions and FORCED people to buy it


obamacare is a good idea in an idealistic theory. its universal health care run by the free market. its the only way to get people covered who have pre existing conditions, you cant cover pre existing conditions and NOT have a mandate/penalty forcing people to buy it, or nobody would buy it until the ambulance is on the way. so the idea is to have a mandate, but give people the option to choose what insurance they want, depending on the free market to give us lower prices and better quality.

but the market doesnt work well with captive customers and monopolies. which happen under our current system where you HAVE to buy the product and health insurance companies are limited to what states they operate in, allowing monopolistic practices in certain areas. i cant buy cheaper health insurance from a competitor in another state. this turned into a scam for health insurance companies where they have a monopoly over captive customers, they can charge me whatever they want because I have to buy it and they have a limited amount of competitors who also jack up the price

im 27 years old, i pay 257 a month for a bronze plan with a $5000 deductible. obama said i could keep my plan and could get health insurance for less than my cell phone plan

So what Americans had before Obamacare was better?

 

[ripskater]

Stay on topic. Either discuss what this thread is about or kick rocks.

I am on topic. Don't make a health plan like Obamacare that hurts the working middle class. The working middle class is the backbone of our country.

So any plan that avoids that is worth considering.

All plans have downsides and certain groups will get screwed. But whatever you do, don't screw over the working middle class.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

So what Americans had before Obamacare was better?

It's a weird short term memory coupled with selective reasoning. Early 2000's was littered with people bitching all over about healthcare, people from all walks of life. We finally do something about it and now its "nah, it was better the other way". Which obviously isn't true because why were we bitching it about it to begin with?

 

[ripskater]

So what Americans had before Obamacare was better?

For the working middle class, yes, what we had was better.

Plus Obamacare is failing right now because it never was sustainable.

 

[Pwent]

I do find it strange that liberal leaning posters seem to have great deals on healthcare while more conservative leaning posters are getting fucked half to death..

ill prove how bullshit my plan is

i was wrong, its only 251 a month, but i was also wrong about the deductible its 6300/9800

im lucky to be in a position to afford my deductible, but how many 27 year olds in this economy have 9800 just in case? thats how much entire procedures cost in other countries ffs

 

[Jack V Savage]

But in a capitalist free market, the hospitals and health insurance companies would only need to worry about making the highest amount of profits possible, right? What incentive would there be to keep things "affordable"? Affordable and "charging as much as we can without crossing the threshold into unattainable" are two different things.

Yeah. What insurance companies want is to cover a lot of people with a very low risk of needing care and to not cover people with a high risk or to cover them at extremely expensive rates. And especially not to cover people who are guaranteed to need care. It's like the joke about banks lending you money if you can prove you don't need it. The industry would be worthless without risk pooling that is encouraged by gov't policy. People don't even realize that employer-provided plans are also subsidized by the gov't as a way to encourage pooling (young, old, sick, healthy employees pay the same). The exchanges are another way to pool risk (and they would break down if not for policy encouraging healthy and young people to get insurance).

So what Americans had before Obamacare was better?

Of course it isn't. That's why Trumpcare blew up. It was a plan to go partly back to the pre-ACA system, and everyone knew it would be a disaster. Republicans knew this would happen before it passed--hence moderates saying that they should make peace with universal healthcare and try to work with it and take at least partial credit and extremists saying that it would be the end of the world. There's now widespread agreement that the pre-ACA status quo was terrible.

 

[Pwent]

That's understandable that you feel "you" were better of before ACA and that might be true but do you honestly believe your government should pass law based on what is personally best for YOU?

Is the only things you will be happy with are laws that are best for you individually?

the governments job is to protect my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. it is there to defend my rights, not fuck over one citizen to improve the wellbeing of another

if liberals want to help poor people, they can donate to charity like conservatives do

 

[Pwent]

So what Americans had before Obamacare was better?

it would be for me and millions of other middle class americans

 

[Imalive]

the governments job is to protect my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. it is there to defend my rights, not fuck over one citizen to improve the wellbeing of another

if liberals want to help poor people, they can donate to charity like conservatives do

Oh the irony. You really think the governments is job is to cater to you?

 

[Imalive]

it would be for me and millions of other middle class americans

Bullshit.

 

[Rational Poster]

That's fine. I was only asking because my insurance guy told me that Cigna was an insurance company geared toward self employed & small businesses. I'm not saying major corporations don't use Cigna, I've just never heard of that

Your insurance guy is probably full of shit like most insurance guys.

Cigna is one of the largest providers in the country.