When will MMA Evolve to use Intercepting/Structure Breaking Takedown Defense?

[middleaged]

In Dan's defense, Renato is also an advocate of the head twist vs a black guy

 

[GKY]

Dan I usually don't post in your threads because I think you're a legit grappler who doesn't always express himself well. But honestly if what you are claiming were true you wouldn't be spending your time posting to us on an Internet forum. You or one or your students would be actively competing in the UFC and making millions.

Unfortunately you haven't competed in anything in a long time.

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

lol Renato get's it, u got to keep BJJ real for the Streetz!

I am amused this thread has garnered so much attention because I was bored and wanted my mind to creatively think.

If you pay enough attention the simpler KISS techniques I show of throat shove, throat grab and punch have already been used in the UFC. Head Twist against the cage is coming. A violent Head twist takedown from clinch situation maybe will happen someday. And no, I never claimed when their body is not controlled that would result in a broken neck like in the movies. Now maybe you should pay attention to when the other persons body is controlled and can not rotate and gravity is in effect as they are falling/being supported as in the first vids. Those are different things.

And lol and making talking about POSSIBILITIES for the FUTURE evolution of MMA about me. I am talking about how the human body works, how in MMA you can have people RUN into Punches, placing the fist on their face hard as they come in, which would be a bit more frowned upon in wrestling but totally fine in MMA or street. Because I talk about what is theoretically possible, FOR TOP ATHLETES that already CAN ACTUALLY FIGHT IN ALL RANGES of combat, that are calm when punches are being thrown at your face, u guys want to say TMA does not work.

Well, maybe that is because most of you are pajama sport blue belts or less, and are not comfortable with someone coming in with real aggression and trying to take your head off. Guess what? Nothing works if you are NOT a fighter in your heart, and not comfortable with strikes. I am talking about what is theoretically possible in the future for top fighters w relaxation, calmness, and quick reaction speed. If you do not see how someone like McG, or Silva or Machida could POSSIBLY do this if it was trained and repped, Not Magically every time, but sometimes as legitimate technique that can work just like any other given all the variables and timing, than you do not really understand the human body or what wrestling really is (not just power power forward pressure only AMERICAN wrestling-also a note, I asked wrestlers when in Portland if they were familiar with the names Cow Catcher and Cement Mixer and they were.......). Of course being able to wrestle is important, I already said those are all the given starting points. What is BEYOND the current status quo? Pointing out how the human body works does not dis-credit wrestlers, heads can be twisted, spines can be destabilized and as I said for a little while you could get away with stuff in MMA that you could not in wrestling for very long. Where did I ever say it is easy or work for anyone?

Now, when someone is not resisting or you have a secure hold like standing arm triangle, or you surprise them quickly yes..........VIBRATION and technique can SEEMINGLY magically put them to the ground (when did I say unconscious?). Argue against facts.

The guys that laugh at TMA, do TMA for the most part. What do you think your pajama sport BJJ is but merely a faster ROI TMA for 1 on 1 ONLY non weapon combat for ONLY 1 range against UNTRAINED single opponent? Most of you literally train defend the one style that stopped working alone after UFC 5. Ur 1995. Of course what most of you discount as TMA or impossible is impossible for most of you, just like all the blue belts that think they can handle themselves that have NO FRIGGIN clue about real pressure with punches, that have never sparred or been hit in the face for real. I am talking about what is possible in the evolution of MMA of FIGHTERS, for people that do spar and are ok mentally with real street situations or fighters.

And what is TMA anyway? Is it TMA because these techniques come from 1 of the 3 pillars of Sambo?

Arguing with people that refuse to see the bigger picture is pointless. I am forward thinking, I knew spinning kicks, switch punches, power step outs/shifting, calf and knee kicks and need to learn to defend, front ball kicks to lower abs, throat shoves etc. would work and become important. Haters hate, but if you pay attention to the things I have shown in videos years before they become somewhat common, and have a keen mind to see these things trend and come into play a broader understanding is to be had.

Follower ants just do not get it.

I didn't claim magic bullet, easy to do, works for everyone or anytime, or anything like that. I said possible. For fighters. I can fight in all ranges of combat, I spar, and I am ok with being hit. Of course if you can not, then nothing especially what you see as fancy or label TMA B.S. does not work. Barimbolo that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[BJJ_Rage]

lol Renato get's it, u got to keep BJJ real for the Streetz!

I am amused this thread has garnered so much attention because I was bored and wanted my mind to creatively think.

And lol and making talking about POSSIBILITIES for the FUTURE evolution of MMA about me. I am talking about how the human body works, how in MMA you can have people RUN into Punches, placing the fist on their face hard as they come in, which would be a bit more frowned upon in wrestling but totally fine in MMA or street. Because I talk about what is theoretically possible, FOR TOP ATHLETES that already CAN ACTUALLY FIGHT IN ALL RANGES of combat, that are calm when punches are being thrown at your face, u guys want to say TMA does not work.

Well, maybe that is because most of you are pajama sport blue belts or less, and are not comfortable with someone coming in with real aggression and trying to take your head off. Guess what? Nothing works if you are NOT a fighter in your heart, and not comfortable with strikes. I am talking about what is theoretically possible in the future for top fighters w relaxation, calmness, and quick reaction speed. If you do not see how someone like McG, or Silva or Machida could POSSIBLY do this if it was trained and repped, Not Magically every time, but sometimes as legitimate technique that can work just like any other given all the variables and timing, than you do not really understand the human body or what wrestling really is (not just power power forward pressure only AMERICAN wrestling). Of course being able to wrestle is important, I already said those are all the given starting points. What is BEYOND the current status quo? Pointing out how the human body works does not dis-credit wrestlers, heads can be twisted, spines can be destabilized and as I said for a little while you could get away with stuff in MMA that you could not in wrestling for very long. Where did I ever say it is easy or work for anyone?

Now, when someone is not resisting or you have a secure hold like standing arm triangle, or you surprise them quickly yes..........VIBRATION and technique can SEEMINGLY magically put them to the ground (when did I say unconscious?). Argue against facts.

The guys that laugh at TMA, do TMA for the most part. What do you think your pajama sport BJJ is but merely a faster ROI TMA for 1 on 1 ONLY non weapon combat for ONLY 1 range against UNTRAINED single opponent? Of course what most of you discount as TMA or impossible is impossible for most of you, just like all the blue belts that think they can handle themselves that have NO FRIGGIN clue about real pressure with punches, that have never sparred or been hit in the face for real. I am talking about what is possible in the evolution of MMA of FIGHTERS, for people that do spar and are ok mentally with real street situations or fighters.

And what is TMA anyway? Is it TMA because these techniques come from 1 of the 3 pillars of Sambo?

Arguing with people that refuse to see the bigger picture is pointless.

I didn't claim magic bullet, easy to do, works for everyone or anything like that. I said possible. For fighters. I can fight in all ranges of combat, I spar, and I am ok with being hit. Of course if you can not, then nothing especially what you see as fancy or label TMA B.S. does not work. Barimbolo that in your pipe and smoke it!

you got a serious hate towards bjj, jet you claim catch jitsu every where..

the problem with stopping the take down by twisting the head is that it is impossible to time it in real life for anyone, the human body simple does not react as fast as it is needed for to it to work, theoretically all aikido moves can be done, how many guys have you seen gone steaven seagal in mma? hell just point one single aikido working video where the aikidoka is catching a punch with some sort of techinque like the one you are proposing, what you are showing is nothing new, fighters or no figthers, most people can see is just bs, in theory it can work, in real life, Go ahead and prove your point. For it, it will be extremely easy, you once were a fighter, there are countless low level mma org that will glady take you for a fight, you will probably destroy most of their guys due to your grappling level, so it should be not very risky and a very good chnce to prove your point.

See, the problem here are your claims, not yourself. You are claiming extraordinary stuff, in order for your claims to be proven, instead of coming to sherdog and basically just call everyone a "sport bjj blue belt bitch dont know shit about life martial arts bla bla bla" well prove your point man.

if you can surprise or put someone down with vibrations, go to a gym, ANY real gym and prove that on tape, if you can actually do it, you will be one of the most wanted instructors in the world, I believe putting someone down (not kod) will be more than enough for people to give you credit for.

by the way, what makes you think most people here do not spar mma? actually its probably the other way around, most bjj do some type of mma traning.

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

So a well timed cross face is IMPOSSIBLE? Really? because that is all it really is to begin with, then just sensitivity/technique that needs to be learned like any other.

I don't hate BJJ, I hate MODERN day BJJ nerds typically blue belt that act tough yet are worse than 1995 guys. No, the BJJ today is not as focused on NHB Vale Tudo and Street self-defense as the BJJ/GJJ I started Jan 1997. I do not see most gyms put gloves on a guy and have them swing HARD as you do takedown entry drills like we did back then.
I obviously am more open minded then most to train and incorporate all styles of martial arts. Guess what, whether most people do your TMA BJJ or TMA TKD, if a hardened street guy blasts you in the face with 5 punches and stomps you when your down it doesn't matter what style of pajamas you where. Interesting that no one answered how often you practice defending kicks when down like I asked? Or admitted that never even thought about WHAT IF the guy is already around or closer then your open guard game? Difference is, I have been in real shit like multiple people kicking when down and Pro fights, most of you have not.

I have on vid doing Jack in the Box to two fighters unfortunately they are much smaller so you will dis-credit and say power even though just slight downward vibrating pressure clean technique. I call it Jack in the Box, but if I call it front naked takedown the GJJ crowd might adopt it if they understood it. You dis-credit that Aikido wristlock against a heavyweight Deep fighter w MMA gloves on yet all you do is bag on Aikido when I show how to actually apply this kind of knowledge/techniques more than others. I had the vid of using bio-mechanics against the wrestlers or taking and taking down a Desert Force fighter that had me pressed against cage but unfortunately those were corrupted. Take my word for it or don't. The footage on the first page of doing it to the much bigger guys when pressed against the wall should be enough Proof of feasibility, even if not in a real MMA fight.

Watch and dis-credit the takedowns against these fighters because of size difference, instead of trying to understand and become a better martial artist

 

[These Two Hands]

Well, maybe that is because most of you are pajama sport blue belts or less, and are not comfortable with someone coming in with real aggression and trying to take your head off.

Dan, I'm only a white belt but I've trained in different MAs most of my life. I spent my 20s getting in bar fights just about every weekend because I wanted to test my training in real world situations, and I have (amateur) ring and dodgy bare knuckle match experience. While I'm nowhere near pro level, I can handle myself reasonably capably. "Sport" blue belts wipe the mat with me all the time, and the ones I train with are plenty tough enough - I don't know any who wouldn't be comfortable stepping out into the alley and having a good go if they felt it was necessary, for example. Or even just roll with strikes if I asked them to. Like I said earlier in the thread, you're arguing a dichotomy I really don't think exists to the extent you're making out.

Barimbolo that in your pipe and smoke it!

Oh, come on man, even I know that should've been a 10th Planet reference there...

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

Watch those vids, discredit the feasibility, then watch these and get some understanding and become a better more knowledgeable martial artist.

These are Short baby step learning tool vids, but it gets to what I am talking at in the first few minutes

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

There is modern blue belt smoke ganja do sport techniques tough, and then there is
I grew up training with Dan Severn and Tank Abbott, and talking to guys like Coleman and Fulton, and I fought myself with headbutts and kicks on ground w wrestling shoes on tough

 

[BJJ_Rage]

So a well timed cross face is IMPOSSIBLE? Really? because that is all it really is to begin with, then just sensitivity/technique that needs to be learned like any other.

the technique that im talking is the technique where you twist the head of your oppenent while they are shooting for a td, that did not look like a cross at all. If that was what you were claiming then no shit, of course you can punch someone in the face while they are shooting, you cannot however grab the head and twisted, which is what it seemed you were claiming in the video, if this was not your intention, then may be you should get that clear, its seems most people did not get your point.

I don't hate BJJ, I hate MODERN day BJJ nerds typically blue belt that act tough yet are worse than 1995 guys. No, the BJJ today is not as focused on NHB Vale Tudo and Street self-defense as the BJJ/GJJ I started Jan 1997. I do not see most gyms put gloves on a guy and have them swing HARD as you do takedown entry drills like we did back then.
I obviously am more open minded then most to train and incorporate all styles of martial arts. Guess what, whether most people do your TMA BJJ or TMA TKD, if a hardened street guy blasts you in the face with 5 punches and stomps you when your down it doesn't matter what style of pajamas you where. Interesting that no one answered how often you practice defending kicks when down like I asked? Or admitted that never even thought about WHAT IF the guy is already around or closer then your open guard game? Difference is, I have been in real shit like multiple people kicking when down and Pro fights, most of you have not.

well, at least where I live, while most bjj schools are sporty, most of them also have MMA classes, and most people like to train in both.
No one answered how often you practice defending kicks becase no one cared about that, dude you just posted some type of aikido crap to work in real mma, followed by some vibration knock down technique, most people will get stuck on those techniques.

I have on vid doing Jack in the Box to two fighters unfortunately they are much smaller so you will dis-credit and say power even though just slight downward vibrating pressure clean technique. I call it Jack in the Box, but if I call it front naked takedown the GJJ crowd might adopt it if they understood it. You dis-credit that Aikido wristlock against a heavyweight Deep fighter w MMA gloves on yet all you do is bag on Aikido when I show how to actually apply this kind of knowledge/techniques more than others. I had the vid of using bio-mechanics against the wrestlers or taking and taking down a Desert Force fighter that had me pressed against cage but unfortunately those were corrupted. Take my word for it or don't. The footage on the first page of doing it to the much bigger guys when pressed against the wall should be enough Proof of feasibility, even if not in a real MMA fight.

what the heck is jack in the box? I dont discredit aikido wristlocks, they can be done in real life, SOME, I do discredit anything tht has to do with catching punches in the air and doing 1231231 chain movements with the opponent just running around in circles, hell I discredit any single punch defense that is not seeing in boxing kick boxing or any other combat striking art.

 

[These Two Hands]

There is modern blue belt smoke ganja do sport techniques tough, and then there is
I grew up training with Dan Severn and Tank Abbott, and talking to guys like Coleman and Fulton, and I fought myself with headbutts and kicks on ground w wrestling shoes on tough

Ok, Dan. Yours is bigger than mine...


What? I'm talking about brags... Your brag is bigger than my brag...

But yeah I get what you are talking about regarding fighting with headbutts and kicks on the ground. That's why I spent a decade getting into bar fights all the time - I believed, and still do, that it gave me perspective and insight that I could not have gained any other way.

Also missing teeth and a criminal record but that's the way it goes. Besides, the "tough" guys I grew up with were all criminals anyway so now I really fit in. Ha ha ha.

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

lol, The Wolfman does not condone such actions....

though stories abound of a certain JKD instructor getting AMPED up on cola, going to bars and pool halls, and causing fights to do just that.

So Rage, I showed the jack in box front naked takedown on two fighters though yes smaller....
and I showed it on two other fighters in Demos but you can see them wiggle down and chicken dance....

So now is that almost good enough? Stop arguing if you do not actually take the time to REALLY listen and watch vids all the way through. Had you watched the end of the first vid, you should have seen the one handed Crossface and understood in reality that is more of a CROSS to the FACE to then Cross Face and start rotation. Had you watched the vids before replying you would know what I mean by Jack in the Box

I mean, I can obviously spar and grapple with top guys and have years of experience, so if I say something can work maybe people should listen.

People rather argue then Learn and become better, this is the higher level knowledge that takes years to really understand, but I give it to you all right here. If you want to be a better martial artist, grappler, wrestler whatever take an hour just to understand bio-mechanics and structure breaking

 

[BJJ_Rage]

lol, The Wolfman does not condone such actions....

though stories abound of a certain JKD instructor getting AMPED up on cola, going to bars and pool halls, and causing fights to do just that.

So Rage, I showed the jack in box front naked takedown on two fighters though yes smaller....
and I showed it on two other fighters in Demos but you can see them wiggle down and chicken dance....

So now is that almost good enough?

I mean, I can obviously spar and grapple with top guys and have years of experience, so if I say something can work maybe people should listen.

that looked a lot like neck cranks. I dont think you hand on top of their heds vibrating had any more to do than getting an sqeeze on those little fellows necks.

If you are talking about the demos you were doing vs the other dudes against the cage, I called that legit, but I dont think its the same technique, unless im confusing the vids, some cliffs on each video will help too.

 

[These Two Hands]

lol, The Wolfman does not condone such actions....

Hey, man, gotta do something to pass the time. Lol.

though stories abound of a certain JKD instructor getting AMPED up on cola, going to bars and pool halls, and causing fights to do just that.

Not from Toronto by any chance..? Knew of a similar story...

I was just a typical young idiot, man. I wouldn't recommend anyone do what I did, at all. It was total stupidity - I was just responding to your earlier claim that

.

...most of you are pajama sport blue belts or less, and are not comfortable with someone coming in with real aggression and trying to take your head off.

by pointing out that being a "sport" blue belt (or lower) does not necessarily automatically make someone incapable of being comfortable in situations which deal with real and aggressive violence. Violence can be exhilarating and addictive, and I've seen more than a few people over the years who are in martial arts simply to feed that fix in a responsible manner.

 

[mgbyrnc]

Random person: "Dan it's not realistic to just break a trained wrestler's neck by turning their head when they shoot in on you"

Dan: "Pajama blue belt do you even practice defending kicks while you're on the ground??"

 

[flapdragon]

not everyone here is a blue belt, dan. i think you need new material

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

Ah, I apologize, technical blue belts, I forgot. lol

If someone were a brown or black belt, I would expect them to go, hmmm, difficult, but interesting, and think about stuff like head control and sensitivity more.

Would't it be interesting if Jack in the Box became known as The Front Naked Takedown and become part of the GJJ Combatives program?

 

[mgbyrnc]

dan your only proof that the technique is effective is a video of you doing it on a 150 lbs chinese man

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

All Asian's are Chinese now? Let's explore your feelings about Chinamen.........

Do you find their awesome thin black hair and pretty faces sexy or threatening? Do you feel funny inside that causes you misplaced hatred towards my tiny Asian brothers?

 

[Ckaa]

I mean, I can obviously spar and grapple with top guys and have years of experience, so if I say something can work maybe people should listen.

Obviously?

Not sure if some obscure 50lbs lighter "fighter" from an amateurish org which nobody knows anything about count.

We are still looking to see you go at AOJ or Marcelo and tape that training with their "instructors".

You're a nobody.

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

Ah, I apologize, technical blue belts, I forgot. lol

If someone were a brown or black belt, I would expect them to go, hmmm, difficult, but interesting, and think about stuff like head control and sensitivity more.

I'm a brown belt, it doesn't make me believe that reaching out and twisting someone's head is a viable take-down defence. Just talking about your first video here, can't particularly be bothered to watch every video in this train wreck.