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Reyes probably would run through them as well. Definitely has the skill set and physical attributes to do that
When was Jones prime?
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Reyes probably would run through them as well. Definitely has the skill set and physical attributes to do that
The talent pool being small is part of it, but there are other factors involved. The type of athleticism involved in MMA is very different from the athleticism that is required in sports like basketball, football, soccer, or even wrestling to a certain extent. Men continue to get stronger, well into their early thirties, ever heard of old man strength? Just look at sports like weightlifting and strongman. Brian Shaw is 37, Bjornsson is 31 and getting stronger every day, Lasha Talakhadze who is turning 27 this year and is slowly becoming one of the greatest Olympic weight lifters of all time. Look at the 2016 Olympic Wrestling field. Some young guns aside, there are also plenty of wrestlers competing at the highest level in their early thirties, and some even older in the heavier weight classes. People often conflate athleticism with how fast someone can run, how much weight they can lift, or how high they can jump. These are literally all secondary aspects of fighting.
The reason you see so many older athletes in MMA is because the sheer amount of time it takes to learn all the necessary skills. Many of the top level UFC fighters spend their childhood mastering a martial art, whether that's wrestling or some form of fighting, and this martial art acts as their base for transitioning into MMA. It takes several years to learn just one skill such as Boxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, or Jiu Jitsu, much less several. If someone starts transitioning to MMA from their first sport at the age of 25, it's only natural that they'd really start to hit their stride right around 29-30, and having that last for several years.
My point of saying all this is to address all the people claiming that Jon Jones is no longer in his prime just because he's hit the age of thirty. The reason Jon has been struggling is because he's being closely monitored by USADA and is no longer able to juice himself up to the tits, along with the fact that he's finally fighting taller and longer opponents, which have always been the kind of fighters that Jon has struggled with. Jones is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. He's great, but certainly not on the level of prime GSP, Fedor, Aldo, Khabib, etc.
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Except all of those sports also have very small talent pools as well. and strongmen are also all on PED's. Like ALL OF THEM, it's not even a secret. Which drasticly alters the aging curve.
The idea that MMA is some magic sport where traditional athleticism doesn't matter is just silly tbh.
You're underestimating the sheer popularity of sports like Olympic weightlifting, Strongmen, and Wrestling in places that are outside of the US. The "talent pool" is not nearly as small as you'd imagine. I also think it's funny how everyone seems to think that these NBA or NFL athletes would succeed in every sport. I've played with, against, and been coached by several of these high quality athletes, and I'll tell you right now, there are many different kinds of athleticism. I'd honestly go so far as to say there might not even be a single NBA athlete right now that could have been a top level Olympic weightlifter. Just because someone can run fast or jump high doesn't mean they have the right athleticism for a sport like Wrestling or weight lifting, and the opposite applies as well.
It might be silly for you, someone that's probably never competed in high level Wrestling or grappling. I'll tell you again from first hand experience, I've seen some real athletic kids on the football field or basketball court come onto the Wrestling/Jiu Jitsu mat and get absolutely folded. And I'm not talking just technique here. A lot of these NBA basketball players, or these super athletic Football wide receivers, cornerbacks, etc, aren't made for the kind of slow-twitch muscle fiber strength and endurance that is required in MMA grappling.
I'm not saying traditional athleticism doesn't matter, I'm saying that people often mistake running and jumping and lifting some weight as the only aspects of athleticism. This is because they're easy to observe and measure, while flexibility, reflexes, chin, quick thinking/improvisation, and body awareness aren't as tangible and easy to measure.
D
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2011 jones was prime jones
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From what I see he tends to be more dominant vs shorter fighters, who are smaller and have less reach.
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Rumble? Yoel?
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I agree with some of that but you don't take mileage into account. Besides vitor shogun and mir they are no guys that were ranked in their early twenties that maintained that for a decade..
He's fading later than virtually everyone
Youngest champion and current champion.
Fair enough, mileage of course has to be taken into account, but I'd argue there re more guys that have fought at an elite level. Him being ranked in his twenties doesn't really matter, because the question is about mileage, so all we really need to focus on is the length of time he's been operating at a high level.
If we draw Jones' line at his first UFC fight which was in 2008, Jones has been fighting at an elite level for twelve years. This is certainly impressive, but how does it compare with other great fighters?
Fedor: 2001 (We'll say right after his first loss when he started his unbeaten streak) - 2010 (When he lost to Werdum) 9 years, and many more fights.
GSP: 2004 (First UFC fight) - 2013 (the Johnny Hendrix fight. We won't count everything after as he's been inactive). 9 years, one more fight than John
Jose Aldo: 2006(Right after first loss, unbeaten streak) - 2015 (Conor loss, though Aldo has still been great since then) 9 years, comparable amount of fights to Jones
And the list goes on. Daniel Cormier has been active just as long as Jones, and Anderson Silva had a very similar reign of dominance to all of these fighters with a lot of mileage, and you already named Vitor, Shogun, and Mir. I'm all about context, but I really think the mileage is a much smaller part of Jones's fading ability, and the bigger parts really seem to be his inability to abuse PEDs without consequences, and actually fighting people that are the same size as him who can counter his biggest weapon, his absurd reach.
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He’d still be in his prime if USADA didn’t start sticking their nose in his business.
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Not really.
It’s hard to get a true gadge of how fighters compare from diffrent eras or decades.
Smith and Thiago both have losses to fighters that the LHWs the early 2010’s have beaten.
while MMAth is not a reliable definitive determination to draw conclusions of it adds a layers of uncertainty to the equation though.
we can only look at fighters overall records to gadge a sense of consistent performance which is indicative of an individuals skill and performance.
neither Thiagos or smiths overall record in addition to some of their particular losses to “older” fighters does not support your statement.
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I think beating ViTRTor, rashad, and DC1 are his best wins
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That looks like Adesanya
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When he was on those Picograms.
