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When do you know to tap?

Bret Griffin

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@Blue
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I'm talking about heel hooks and possibly toe holds. I don't have experience with either but I've always been told(heel hooks) don't hurt until it's too late and unlike other submissions there is no locking out a hook so how do you guys tell that it's time to tap?
 
I tap to heelhooks if I start feeling pressure in the knee and when it feels like my knee *can't* (I guess it never really should) rotate in that direction any more
 
when you feel pain or you know you cant escape. I have a sensitive shoulder from a old injury. So when I know the guy has a shoulder lock tight I tap.
 
Usually instantly and restart roll I don't like to risk it. But today some idiot tried a toe hold as fast n hard as he could. Heard a pop but could still walk n now it's super sore and limping tonight. Thought he would know better since he's a bb in judo but big time sore loser n I felt he wanted to prove something to his sensei who was watching
 
I tap as soon as I feel I am in trouble. When I started I usually waited until I felt pain but I ended up getting injured a couple of times.

Now I tap as soon as I am caught in something. I been doing BJJ enough now to know when I am trapped so I tap quicker and I haven't been injured for a long time.
 
Usually instantly and restart roll I don't like to risk it. But today some idiot tried a toe hold as fast n hard as he could. Heard a pop but could still walk n now it's super sore and limping tonight. Thought he would know better since he's a bb in judo but big time sore loser n I felt he wanted to prove something to his sensei who was watching

Any advice to heal quickly?
 
Air chokes are easy to figure out, blood chokes when you start to feel lightheaded (which can be very very fast), then by locks either pain or pressure depending on the particular submission
 
With Chokes I decided to give myself the most time to get out I just don't tap. With joint locks when I hear the 3rd pop it's time to tap.
 
You're right in that heel hooks don't "Hurt" until it's too late. But that doesn't mean there aren't signs telling you to tap. Your knee will feel a "pressure" when a heel hook's put in properly. It's kinda hard to explain, without just showing someone what it's supposed to feel like. Another way I've heard it explained is just that it feels like it's about to pop.
 
I'm talking about heel hooks and possibly toe holds. I don't have experience with either but I've always been told(heel hooks) don't hurt until it's too late and unlike other submissions there is no locking out a hook so how do you guys tell that it's time to tap?

As others have said, you'll hopefully feel pressure in a heel hook before pain. But I wouldn't even wait that long. As soon as you're "caught," you should tap. You gain little benefit by trying to fight your way out of submissions. Instead of spending time trying to get out of a submission (especially "dangerous" ones like heel hooks), learn what you need to do to not get caught in them in the first place.

In the immortal words of Osiander, if you find yourself asking how do I escape from heel hooks, you fucked up a long time ago.
 
Heel hooks in training.. if I know I'm caught since we don't actually crank them in the gym,just catch and hold, and no wiggle room. In comp, can't say anything never been there.

Toe holds, they come on really fast. I recently had my ankle popped from one and it did the whole swelling nonsense... still bothers me like a rolled ankle. I'd say tap the same as any other joint lock.
 
If you have someone apply a proper heel hook very slowly, you can feel the tightness in your knee. In training I will tap (and I expect people to tap) when it's locked on and there's no putting the foot back on the floor and no way to turn, or if I get the sense that the attacker has something to prove and goes for my heel.

Find somebody who is good at them and get them to show you what it feels like. You might have to pay close attention the first few times. For me, a heel hook feels kind of like the slack goes out of the joint and things get tight on the inside of my knee. I think toeholds are easier to sense. My entire foot tenses up and I can feel a twinge in my ankle.

In both cases, what really should let you know when to tap is that you understand the submission well enough to know when you are in trouble and when you aren't. But getting a sense of what the sub feels like (from someone who knows what they are doing, and will stop before things get bad even if you don't notice it) isn't a bad place to start.

BTW, when I saw someone who knows what they are doing, I mean someone who legitimately knows what they are doing, not somebody who watched a few YouTube videos and thinks they know heel hooks.

Oh, and when I slap on a heel hook in training, I often don't actually grab the heel. I'll get everything else (legs, angle, etc.) positionally right and then throw the little heel hook gang sign beside their foot, just to say "I've got it, time to tap". Works well in training.
 
If you have someone apply a proper heel hook very slowly, you can feel the tightness in your knee. In training I will tap (and I expect people to tap) when it's locked on and there's no putting the foot back on the floor and no way to turn, or if I get the sense that the attacker has something to prove and goes for my heel.

Find somebody who is good at them and get them to show you what it feels like. You might have to pay close attention the first few times. For me, a heel hook feels kind of like the slack goes out of the joint and things get tight on the inside of my knee. I think toeholds are easier to sense. My entire foot tenses up and I can feel a twinge in my ankle.

In both cases, what really should let you know when to tap is that you understand the submission well enough to know when you are in trouble and when you aren't. But getting a sense of what the sub feels like (from someone who knows what they are doing, and will stop before things get bad even if you don't notice it) isn't a bad place to start.

BTW, when I saw someone who knows what they are doing, I mean someone who legitimately knows what they are doing, not somebody who watched a few YouTube videos and thinks they know heel hooks.

Oh, and when I slap on a heel hook in training, I often don't actually grab the heel. I'll get everything else (legs, angle, etc.) positionally right and then throw the little heel hook gang sign beside their foot, just to say "I've got it, time to tap". Works well in training.


Great post, but it leaves me wondering.... What is the Heel Hook gang sign?
 
Great post, but it leaves me wondering.... What is the Heel Hook gang sign?

Oh, haha, I couldn't think of a good name for it. That's just the gable grip without their heel on your wrist. Think about the motion you do to finish a heel hook and do that without their foot.
 
Oh, haha, I couldn't think of a good name for it. That's just the gable grip without their heel on your wrist. Think about the motion you do to finish a heel hook and do that without their foot.

Damn....
I was really hoping for a cool heel hook gang sign that I could flash to nukkas on "teh street."

Southside Heel Hook Crips 4 Eva
 
If it hurts and i can't escape

People tend to burn out their arms in a grapple.

I tap to neck cranks and toe holds/kneebars quickly

No shame in taps. Everybody taps

Any time somebody is almost locking in a gi choke i tap right
away. You go out from gi chokes right away

In gi i tap quicker than nogi. In nogi there is less friction and you can wait a bit. With gi somebody grabs something and boom done
 
I tap to toeholds when I cant kick straight or grab their hands.

I tap to heelhooks when I can spin or grab their hands.
 
For toe holds and heel hooks, if my leg is bent and trapped, and I can't straighten it out, I know that I'm most likely caught. I never wait until it hurts real bad, but then again I just don't tap when someone slaps a leg lock on. Have someone with more experience work with you on it and after awhile you will get a feel for it.
 
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