When America Was Great...

Seano said:
Striving to be the best is good. We should always look to improve our place in the world view.
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I strongly agree, but to act like the US has gone to shit is just fucking looney tunes.
 
therealdope said:
I strongly agree, but to act like the US has gone to shit is just fucking looney tunes.
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I don't know if I'd say its looney tunes. There is a lot wrong with this country right now.
 
Space said:
I'm pretty sure Me3t4tron believes this.
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Well he has a point there was a level of 'national' "umph" that followed world war II. No doubt about that.

Maybe we need a 3rd world war Trump?
 
I believe that those that fought in WWII were the greatest generation. I think that millennials are so weak and sensitive. I really don't believe that other countries respect the USA the way they used to
 
Seano said:
I don't know if I'd say its looney tunes. There is a lot wrong with this country right now.
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True, but there's less wrong now than there ever has been in my lifetime.

The US is in a moment of massive social progress, which creates unrest and fear, but don't mistake that with thing going "wrong." The last time things went so "wrong" was in the 1960's and then blacks were given equal rights and the Vietnam war was ended.
 
KILL KILL said:
Do you know why that came to an end? The stock market crash of 1929. The economy recovered from this through government intervention and the onset of WWII. This same government broke apart monopolies and enforced worker's rights.

Not to mention, working conditions were horrible. Without government intervention, there would have been no change.

1902, Roosevelt was forced to intervene in the Anthracite coal strike because the owners did not recognize the Union, which led to the workers receiving a 10% pay increase.

1909, "Uprising of the 20,000". female shirtwaist makers in New York strike against sweatshop conditions

1911, Triangle shirtwaist factory fire killed hundreds of women when they were locked inside a building during work hours. There were no worker's rights laws to prevent this.

1912, Bread and Roses strike saw 20,000 people on the picket line. At the end of the month, a bill passed to create the Department of Labor.
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Alright look, you're not understanding how working conditions and wages move upward. People get paid more and work in the gucci air conditioned offices not because legislation is telling them they have to, but because their production standards do.

Workers get paid roughly according to their value marginal product. If they don't, someone will. You see how that works? Its simple but nuanced game theory. If you're going to under pay your employees below their productivity (or make their working conditions really shitty) then you're just handing over a margin to be exploited by your competition. Now here's the kicker. What makes their marginal productivity go up? Well that's capital. Entrepreneurs that give their employees capital to increase their productivity must also pay them more... because their marginal productivity also goes up.

But just for some extra myth busting, no, World War II most certainly did not get us out of the depression. In fact it extended it, because all the production reallocated for the war to make bombs and bullets was redirected away from producing things people wanted to buy. To boot government programs like the New Deal just decelerated the recovery.

You kind of see how the economy really functions now? It's not about employment or even about production for production's sake. It's about producing the things that people want for the lowest cost possible, and there's no room for government to get involved. As a point of contact for you, look at the depression of 1921... Can't find it? That's because it didn't happen. The correction in 1921 was more acute and more severe even than in 1929, but we never hear about it because the recovery was equally as sharp. The difference was government involvement following 1929.

Shocking how much they brain wash us during those twelve years of government indoc, huh?
 
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Greoric said:
Alright look, you're not understanding how working conditions and wages move upward. People get paid more and work in the gucci air conditioned offices not because legislation is telling them they have to, but because their production standards do.

Workers get paid roughly according to their value marginal product. If they don't, someone will. You see how that works? Its simple but nuanced game theory. If you're going to under pay your employees below their productivity (or make their working conditions really shitty) then you're just handing over a margin to be exploited by your competition. Now here's the kicker. What makes their marginal productivity go up? Well that's capital. Entrepreneurs that give their employees capital to increase their productivity must also pay them more... because their marginal productivity also goes up.

But just for some extra myth busting, no, World War II most certainly did not get us out of the depression. In fact it extended it, because all the production reallocated for the war to make bombs and bullets was redirected away from producing things people wanted to buy. To boot government programs like the New Deal just decelerated the recovery.

You kind of see how the economy really functions now? It's not about employment or even about production for production's sake. It's about producing the things that people want for the lowest cost possible, and there's no room for government to get involved. As a point of contact for you, look at the depression of 1921... Can't find it? That's because it didn't happen. The correction in 1921 was more acute and more severe even than in 1929, but we never hear about it because the recovery was equally as sharp. The difference was government involvement following 1929.

Shocking how much they brain wash us during those twelve years of government indoc, huh?
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- Me thinks you're confused. There is legislation in place to protect workers. This is enforced by the government. Working conditions DRASTICALLY improved since this was created. This is not a coincidence. As I pointed out before, the government intervened numerous times to help workers that were being exploited by employers. It's much more difficult to do so today because of it.

- WWII certainly did help end the depression. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but it is incorrect. The war created TONS of factory jobs. Men went off to war and women began leaving home to work. There was a demand and it required paid labor in order to meet it.

- The depression of 1921 was a brief post war recession. The circumstances aren't nearly the same as in 1929, so trying to compare the two is like apples and oranges. You forgot to mention that Harding passed the Emergency Tariff of 1921, the Fordney-McCumber Tariff, and the Copper-Voldtead Act.

Imagine if there was no government action after the crash in 1929. The New Deal, the Second New Deal, and WWII all helped. The Works Progress Admin (WPA) employed over 3 million people in 1938 alone.
 
M3t4tr0n said:
Those economic benefits mostly applied to straight, white, christian men.
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Do you suppose that the government or society in generally would magically know if someone was homosexual or non-Christian?
 
djacobox372 said:
True, but there's less wrong now than there ever has been in my lifetime.

The US is in a moment of massive social progress, which creates unrest and fear, but don't mistake that with thing going "wrong." The last time things went so "wrong" was in the 1960's and then blacks were given equal rights and the Vietnam war was ended.
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What is the left's obsession with social justice causes these days? Serious question. People have it better than ever before, and yet the far left loonies act as if the greatest injustices are being perpetrated today. Personally, I think that the left actually has little left to fight for, and boredom has set in, which is why we see so much focus on micro issues (and in fact, even "micro aggressions"). The civil rights movement is over, but people want to pretend they have a new million man march to attend.

The real issues facing the US these days are not social. In the words of leftist hero James Carville himself: "It's the economy, stupid."

Put another way: a rising tide lifts all boats.
 
Basileus said:
Do you suppose that the government or society in generally would magically know if someone was homosexual or non-Christian?
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The reptilians would tell them who was who.
 
Thread title makes me wonder who has been great during the time the USA has been a country. What's that list look like?
 
KILL KILL said:
- Me thinks you're confused. There is legislation in place to protect workers. This is enforced by the government. Working conditions DRASTICALLY improved since this was created. This is not a coincidence. As I pointed out before, the government intervened numerous times to help workers that were being exploited by employers. It's much more difficult to do so today because of it.

- WWII certainly did help end the depression. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but it is incorrect. The war created TONS of factory jobs. Men went off to war and women began leaving home to work. There was a demand and it required paid labor in order to meet it.

- The depression of 1921 was a brief post war recession. The circumstances aren't nearly the same as in 1929, so trying to compare the two is like apples and oranges. You forgot to mention that Harding passed the Emergency Tariff of 1921, the Fordney-McCumber Tariff, and the Copper-Voldtead Act.

Imagine if there was no government action after the crash in 1929. The New Deal, the Second New Deal, and WWII all helped. The Works Progress Admin (WPA) employed over 3 million people in 1938 alone.
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You're getting your correlation and causation confused my man, and you just ignored everything I told you about how wages and working conditions are set. Just do the thought experiment for yourself, and place our worker "protections" on the people of Somalia. What do you think happens next? Do you imagine they'll be going to work in ties and sitting at desks in a comfortable 70 degree office space? No? Well ask yourself why that is.

Also just to clear up this WWII nonsense, let's suppose there was no Hitler and there were no Nazis or Japanese to invade. Should we have just come up with a workers program for people to dig holes and fill them back up again? Afterall, we're creating employment that way. Or even more appropriately, what if we evacuated everyone out of one of our cities and carpet bombed the piss out of it and sent people back in to rebuild? That too would be incredible for increasing the employment statistics. Not to mention we'd have the opportunity to produce all this concrete and steel to rebuild.... Starting to see why that line of thinking doesn't make any sense I hope?
 
M3t4tr0n said:
K my friend. Let me buy you a beer.
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Dont drink that beer it looks like one of those fruit beers that sissies drink with like oranges and grape fruit and what not ... lemonade or something. Point is dont take that beer
 
Gutter Chris said:
Dont drink that beer it looks like one of those fruit beers that sissies drink with like oranges and grape fruit and what not ... lemonade or something. Point is dont take that beer
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Fine, he can have one of these beers. I didn't put roofies in it or anything.

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