What's goin' down at Tocco's (video):

[ssullivan80]

Doesn't look like he counters much though, seems like his defense is great but he rarely converts it to offense.

Yeah, I've noticed the same thing every time I have watched him. He's very defensively sound, get's into good positions and when he does throw a shot his opponents reactions would indicate that he's got some pretty heavy hands. It's almost like he's looking to defend the next shot before he finds his own, like he's waiting for the ideal opportunity vs. creating them....... and he's in positions constantly that he could really leverage into creating offense. He learns to blend in short shots with his defensive movements, not even big shots, just keep his hands busier and "touch em"...... He'd be a handful to deal with, more so than he already is. If he takes the same proactive approach to his offense as he does his defense, it would really work out well for him IMO!

Also..... not just in these clips, but others i have seen of him. It's almost like he's too nice of a guy to want to actually hurt someone, a pacifist of sorts. At least that what it appears when i've watched him, like he's constantly "pulling his shots" or even when he is throwing them he almost hesitates........ Maybe that's his inclination to want to be defensive? But I also think he's probably a lot faster and more explosive of an athlete than his punching translates to in the ring. He's methodical, just seems like he needs to be a bit angrier almost!? if that made any sense.....

 

[Sinister]

Same thing happens to me, and the first thing I think when I lose an exchange is "were my knees bent...damnit".

Watched the rest of that video. Man Bleu has some really nice defense. I love how he slips outside the cross, picks the jab with his right hand with a very minimal movement, gets a good bend in his knees when he's getting teed off on and just has great positioning overall. Doesn't look like he counters much though, seems like his defense is great but he rarely converts it to offense. Maybe that's just what you were saying with him not wanting to get into scraps with bigger guys. His right hand is tight though. I noticed he was throwing a lot of soft rights in the beginning and pivoting out, but started planting more and looking to land the hard right as he got into it. I'm a fan of his subtle steps to get his lead foot in position for that punch.

Da Tooth makes good use of the hop step. I like how he uses it to get into position (both angle and range) for his left hand, as well as to disengage safely after he throws it. Or he'll step back to his left after throwing it to work an inside angle unless he's gonna stand there and continue his combination. It's nice to see that he's able to do a lot of different things after that punch. Plus you can see him literally do the tile exercise as he moves around, because of things like that him and Bleu really look like two of your guys.

They all have fantastic jabs too. Difficult to see, stiff and powerful but without overcommitment, and they lead well into other punches. A lot of good footwork going on as well, it's nice to watch.

Now on to the other three videos :icon_chee:icon_chee

I think you're confusing Da Tooth for Loco, Loco (Jonathan) is the Southpaw. But both of them have the leg-straightening issue.

Yeah, I've noticed the same thing every time I have watched him. He's very defensively sound, get's into good positions and when he does throw a shot his opponents reactions would indicate that he's got some pretty heavy hands. It's almost like he's looking to defend the next shot before he finds his own, like he's waiting for the ideal opportunity vs. creating them....... and he's in positions constantly that he could really leverage into creating offense. He learns to blend in short shots with his defensive movements, not even big shots, just keep his hands busier and "touch em"...... He'd be a handful to deal with, more so than he already is. If he just had the same proactive approach to his offense as he does his defense, it would really work out well for him IMO!

This is exactly what you look for to determine a fighter's maturity. I had a sparring session shot, Bleu vs. the journeyman Rodrigo Aranda. Rodrigo is every but as defensively sound as Bleu. But with around 30 Pro fights, and having over 30 Amateur fights, when he moves he WILL hit you just because.

These kids are young, they're not QUITE there yet. They're just discovering the little nuances and fascinated with being safe, or landing punches, but have yet to wade into performing both at the same time.

About your second paragraph Sully...he's been getting a bit meaner. In the clip with him against the two bigger guys, he opens up on them when I tell him not to baby them. He's just overly cautious. Too much of a thinker.

 

[ssullivan80]

What's great about that fight is how deceptive Ivica was without really doing anything. A couple of little feints, he was so far on his right I'm sure the last thing the other guy expected was a high kick from the left.

That was nice! From what i saw, the other guy was actually expecting a left kick..... he was just expecting it to come low, like the first one. He moved his front leg back, bent forward at his waist and lowered his hands. He was looking to step back, make him miss the low kick and shoot a TD........ welll....he definitely found his way to the mat!

What Ivica did that I really was impressed with (veteran move), not only did he start out with the low kick, stayed leaned over to his right and feint him into the ideal range...... he looked down at his opponents lead leg, then came up high with the kick. You pause it on the slo mo replay, you'll see his opponents eyes get drawn down right before that kick came upside his head....... good stuff!

 

[ssullivan80]

This is exactly what you look for to determine a fighter's maturity. I had a sparring session shot, Bleu vs. the journeyman Rodrigo Aranda. Rodrigo is every but as defensively sound as Bleu. But with around 30 Pro fights, and having over 30 Amateur fights, when he moves he WILL hit you just because.

These kids are young, they're not QUITE there yet. They're just discovering the little nuances and fascinated with being safe, or landing punches, but have yet to wade into performing both at the same time.

About your second paragraph Sully...he's been getting a bit meaner. In the clip with him against the two bigger guys, he opens up on them when I tell him not to baby them. He's just overly cautious. Too much of a thinker.

"overthinking" is the ideal analogy, makes sense. But what was good to see, is that when you did tell him to get after it...... he turned off the "defensive thinking" and went to being purely "offensively minded", and that's when you could really see that he's been well trained....... even when he mentally abandoned being "defensive" and switched to being offensive, he instinctively was doing both! so, good work.....

Oh yeah, as for Daijon...... that kids legit! His straight left is money and he sets it up exceptionally well, both with his feet and his hands. He can throw it hard moving in any direction and when he builds that straight left into the later part of his combos he's liable to put guy's to sleep....... That kids the truth, even to say i could see him having "Olympic potential" ............

 

[Sinister]

That's what I'm thinking for him, too. But believe it or not his right hook is his hardest punch. He just has no real faith in it. His left is hard because I refined it some (still not as good as I'd like it to be), but his right hook has hurt almost everyone he's landed it on.

 

[Discipulus]

A slightly frustrated "Put a right hook behind it!" from Luis is the theme of most of Daijon's sparring videos.

 

[WillW]

didnt watch all your videos but daijon seems to be one of your better guys(cool name btw:icon_lol

Hes got some good speed moving to his right to set up his left hand.

a fast footed SP with a good st. left is a recipe for success. And yes, get him to follow up with a nice right hook could get some good results.

like how he is just moving around and quickly moves in to catch his guy off guard.

 

[Sinister]

His right hook is absurdly hard. He just feels weird throwing it. But when I take him on the mitts, or do anything where I have to hold something he punches, it sucks.

 

[WillW]

yep that is a killer combo. been on the receiving end of too many of those.
look how many guys MP has been hurting with his RH since joining Roach.

a lot of boxers either have the problem of landing their shot then getting out too fast to be safe, while others get greedy and stay inside too long looking to land more.

good to see your guys progress.

 

[Shoemaker]

Here's Bleu and another of my newer guys. Not new to boxing but new with me, I call him my little Marquez:

He does look like a little Marquez!

I know that you prefer your guys to have a starting position with their head over their rear-foot and you've said Lopez/Marquez being front-foot heavy was one thing about their technique you thought could change. Is this something you're looking to change in him or leave well-enough alone?

 

[Sinister]

I'm going to give him the ability to adequately utilize both hips. He's a textbook counter-puncher, disposition-wise. He likes to draw his opponent's in and exploit their openings. You can kind of already see something I'm doing with him and that's his ability to pull, to lead a bit with the head and then pull the head back to the back-foot. What's very important is that we get him to do that as he is punching, this way he doesn't get caught leaning in like Marquez does in most of the knockdowns he suffered, and Finito did against Bufalo Alvarez.

 

[Shoemaker]

Thanks. I was going to remark that he doesn't appear to have any problems shifting positions, and he's not dependent on any hip.

Seeing how you move your guys along is very insightful, notably your saying "teaching them how to be better men," pardon the paraphrase. One of the reasons I first began training a few years ago (beyond in-the-garage) was at the encouragement of my business mentor and father figure. I didn't realize it at the time, but he was using it to make me a better man. Not to mention lessons learned in both arenas are mutually applicable.


Thanks for sharing the videos. I don't post as often as I used to but I still absorb most that I see on here. Cheers.

 

[Sinister]

You had a very good business mentor. Training their personalities is the most difficult aspect, I don't want their faults being used against them in the ring should they choose to pursue a career at this. And if they don't, I don't want their faults used against them in life by people attempting to gain something from their loss of anything.

 

[Sinister]

This one demonstrates a bit more of his mid-range liabilities. He's moving with my Puerto Rican, who has more experience and figured out how to pressure him smarter. Go in, but not all the way in, keep positioning and let HIM over-commit as opposed to allowing him to make you over-commit so he can counter:

 

[fightingrabbit]

I'm going to give him the ability to adequately utilize both hips. He's a textbook counter-puncher, disposition-wise. He likes to draw his opponent's in and exploit their openings. You can kind of already see something I'm doing with him and that's his ability to pull, to lead a bit with the head and then pull the head back to the back-foot. What's very important is that we get him to do that as he is punching, this way he doesn't get caught leaning in like Marquez does in most of the knockdowns he suffered, and Finito did against Bufalo Alvarez.

Is there a correct way to do this little move. Morales did it alot too. Alot of times when i try it, i take a jab on the forehead. Am i leaning too far over my front foot, or is my base not wide enough?

 

[Sinister]

At what point are you eating the jab?

 

[Brando]

I'm going to give him the ability to adequately utilize both hips. He's a textbook counter-puncher, disposition-wise. He likes to draw his opponent's in and exploit their openings. You can kind of already see something I'm doing with him and that's his ability to pull, to lead a bit with the head and then pull the head back to the back-foot. What's very important is that we get him to do that as he is punching, this way he doesn't get caught leaning in like Marquez does in most of the knockdowns he suffered, and Finito did against Bufalo Alvarez.

Regarding baiting the head off of a punch, it works well with a cross as I'm sure you know. As one different option, you can lean into exaggerated left hook mechanics from this lead-leg "head bait position." As a variation to the more common pull that keeps you on the tracks, the exaggerated, sitting left hook basically gets you into an "outside slip position," where you can fire off one of your regular counters from here. Just counter or move immediately, because you're on the back foot and in the cross-hairs.

I have often found it effective to assume your "bait head position" (really your posture) outside of your opponents range, and then walk in on him behind some head movement and a change of guards. It might seem contradictory to discuss the value of responsible head movement in a situation where I'm trying to apply a certain, static baiting position. This is where all of the posture talk around here shows its value again, as the pull counter is more about shifting postures than it is about pulling your head. I alternate between 3-4 different hand positions, flick out some poking shots, and offer as many different looks as I can, and wait. If he's not reacting to your probes you just start punching him, committing yourself incrementally and waiting for his response. Whenever you sense real commitment from the opponent's shot, pull counter-it. Basically, you're eliminating the risk of getting into your forward posture by taking it early and maintaining it as you go into range. Though you're not in a great leverage position for some punches, you look more threatening and occupy more space, so he will likely make a move quickly.

Just rambling, interesting thread!

 

[Babba]

Just rambling, interesting thread!

i agree with ur post, sometimes u can just "peacock" like this and troll someone into the ropes, they will literarly walk themselves backwards into the ropes if you give them different looks they dont want to engange on, or they think your bait is "too obvious". so making the bait too obvious, asin not pulling a front hand hook basically just a punch there to set your back hand straight into a hard positon, trolls them wher eyou want. its a million games like this, thats where expereince comes in.. so when someone in a thread asks does x work agains y or shit like that, in reality its about understanding the tool..

 

[Sinister]

Regarding baiting the head off of a punch, it works well with a cross as I'm sure you know. As one different option, you can lean into exaggerated left hook mechanics from this lead-leg "head bait position." As a variation to the more common pull that keeps you on the tracks, the exaggerated, sitting left hook basically gets you into an "outside slip position," where you can fire off one of your regular counters from here. Just counter or move immediately, because you're on the back foot and in the cross-hairs.

I have often found it effective to assume your "bait head position" (really your posture) outside of your opponents range, and then walk in on him behind some head movement and a change of guards. It might seem contradictory to discuss the value of responsible head movement in a situation where I'm trying to apply a certain, static baiting position. This is where all of the posture talk around here shows its value again, as the pull counter is more about shifting postures than it is about pulling your head. I alternate between 3-4 different hand positions, flick out some poking shots, and offer as many different looks as I can, and wait. If he's not reacting to your probes you just start punching him, committing yourself incrementally and waiting for his response. Whenever you sense real commitment from the opponent's shot, pull counter-it. Basically, you're eliminating the risk of getting into your forward posture by taking it early and maintaining it as you go into range. Though you're not in a great leverage position for some punches, you look more threatening and occupy more space, so he will likely make a move quickly.

Just rambling, interesting thread!

This is essentially what my guy "Loco" is getting good at. Joseph (Bandito) is a bit too static in his hips to go in behind much movement. But he'll get there.

 

[Sinister]

Rather than start a whole new thread I re-titled and am reviving this one. There's a lot of exciting stuff going on at Vegas' eldest Gym. For one thing, we're bringing back sparring exhibitions that are open to the public:



That features 4 of my guys. Bandito (whose gloves I'm tying in the beginning), Loco (Punisher shirt, white headgear), Samurai Pete (long hair, heavyweight), and Daijon (black headgear, sparring with Flash at the end).

Speaking of Flash, he's getting ready to go Pro within the next few months. Here's the little Promo video HustleBoss did of him (which features that same session with Daijon):



And he also had a very very good session with Keith Hunter (Son of Mike "The Bounty" Hunter)...built off of that they had fought each other before. Keith won that day. Flash got a little get-back here:



More to come very soon.