what to study for police officers

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by golbe37, Jan 15, 2006.

  1. golbe37

    golbe37 White Belt

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    Hi everyone, Im not sure if this is the right forum but ill give it a try. Any advice on a good art or style to pratice for police officers. Thanks for any and all advice
     
  2. Ouch That Hurt

    Ouch That Hurt White Belt

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    Everything you can. What is taught at police academys is absolutely horrible. For stand up you need to learn to tuck your chin and throw straight punches. Be able to cover yourself, and maybe some clinching techniques. You'll also need a ground game too. Studies show that its like 90% of the time when someone resists arrest it goes to the ground.
     
  3. Tone C

    Tone C Silver Belt

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    Yep, one of my guys is a copper/policeman and he says the stuff taught at UK training centres for police is [email protected] and doesnt work on non compliant people,learn grappling skills and be prepared to have to rough house it.Be aware that when you arrest someone you are liable to wearing a uniform, belt ,asp ,etc .Its not the same as being in a nice matted area with a tshirt and shorts etc on.Dark alleyways etc also come into the equation.Good luck.What I did'nt notice was if you are going to be UK based or somewhere that uses firearms which alters things somewhat.
     
  4. scorcho

    scorcho Brown Belt

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    Honestly, I think Ju-jitsu is the best for police. The grappling and sub holds allow you to control people while not doing a lot of damage, and it is great for getting perps into handcuff positions. Striking is often a bit too violent and leaves too much permanent damage.
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Krav Maga - practical defense against both weapons and bare-hands, take the opponent down quick, hard, ask questions later.
     
  6. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

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    I have some experience with this. One of the top guys at our TKD school was a retired police officer and my uncle is a retired sherrif. The guy at our school, unfortunately, died from cancer just a year ago.

    Actually I think they use a lot of wrist locks. My uncle broke someone's wrist using an aikido type wrist lock when they were resisting arrest.

    And, in all seriousness, they had to have a whole investigation against him on it. Because he broke the guys wrist before his partner got in the room and, of course, the guy claimed police brutality. It was all dismissed, but police have it tough in that fashion.

    After that, my uncle claims, he never arrested someone without backup ever again. That is the main weapon of a police officer, backup. Both for the additional help and for another witness to what occured.

    I'm sure a grappling style like BJJ would be good. BUT they'd have to modify it somewhat. A police officer cannot jump into guard. Guard is a very bad position for him as his gun and baton would be within easy reach of the guy on top. Then there is the whole problem of them having a knife or something. In many ways small circle type jiu jitsu or aikido type techniques are exactly what they need to know.

    Part of the reason so many people think the police type training is 'crap' is because they are rookies and really don't understand the needs of their job. They're thinking, 'this won't work in a cage fight'.

    But that isn't the environment a police officer works in. The guy might have a gun or a knife. His problem is, 'how do I get the cuffs on the guy with the least effort possible when he is laying on the ground and my partner has him covered...'
     
  7. muaythaibadman

    muaythaibadman White Belt

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    I train BJJ with lots of British police officers they use subs on a regular basis due to the fact that scum people like claming police brutality

    think about it you cant just go knocking people out with a punch, well not as a police officer in Britain anyway
     
  8. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    That's kind of sad that they can't just knock people out, OR carry guns. If they don't carry guns they should be allowed to knock people out at the very least.

    But Aaron brings up a good point. They can't rely on grappling alone because for one, they carry weapons which could be wrestled from them. Second is they often also find themselves outnumbered for a period of time when dealing with people. The first parts of a situation there are usually less Cops than a carfull of criminals. They don't want to be attempting a Kimura when the guy's buddies get out of the car and kick the shit out of the Officer before back-up arrives.

    There's very few singular systems that are going to be one easy answer. For Police and Military it's good that they know a little bit of everything. They never know who they're coming across.
     
  9. Gregster

    Gregster Black Belt

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    Were I to go by my observations of cops and sheriffs deputies trying to break up fights in real life (not to mention on Cops) than hand-to-hand training for police is pretty worthless...likely because a lot of them get some cursory training at the academy and then never seek to maintain that minimal level of proficiency, never mind improving it. This leads to injured cops and police brutality complaints by guys had had to get shit-kicked into compliance because the cops didn't know how to do a simple armlock or come-along.

    I trained/trained with some law enforcement types at my old school, and they found that the Hapkido component of the training was well suited for them; it helped that my instructor was a bouncer with ample practical experience bringing combative drunk assholes of the sort that cops routinely deal with to heel and could show them what worked and what didn't.

    I agree with King Kabuki that Krav Maga (assuming you can find a reputable instructor) would probably be a good choice. It's simple, spartan, no-bullshit street brawling with the added benefit of having a decent repetoire of defense against weapons, including guns.

    BJJ may or may not be a good choice. On the one hand, it's great for handling what people tend to do in fights (rush up on you and grab you) and also for submitting them. However, crimminals resisting arrest (especially dangerous ones) have a notorious habit of grabbing for a cops' gun when wrestling with them; as a result, cops all over the country get shot with their own carry weapon every year. Plus, being on the ground is something you generally want to avoid if you can.

    I think perhaps the best style for cops, if they have the option, to control a person violently resisting arrest would be TKD (Tazer Knock Down).
     
  10. gracie_barra**

    gracie_barra** Purple Belt

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    How about Kali or Defendo? I dont know much about the latter, but Kali has some benefits since they train to handle knives/ use short sticks (police baton).
     
  11. antant

    antant White Belt

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    I've said this earlier, I am not a police officer but I work at a police station and work with officers all day, so I see what they have to go through (they keep trying to recruit me, but F that its really tough and takes a special personality and attidute to stay in the job until retirement.)

    One thing that you need is stand up grappling, for clinch control, take down, joint manipulation. Never arrest someone by yourself if you can help it, especially a drunk or a bum/crack addict. If its a serious arrest, and that guy comes come back in as a violent felon, they will call as many available officers to arrest that guy as possible.

    Carry a tape recorder with you if your department doesn't already require it, it will save you and your station from legal problems. Depending on your department and your state, use that tase-gun when you have non-compliance, use your gun for ANY kind of weapon threat, especially a knife....very dangerous. Don't wrestle with a guy for a knife, jump away, unholster your gun. If you know knife disarming techniques, use them if you can't get to you gun in time.

    Ummmm, thats all I can think of for now. Good luck and have fun being a police officer!

    PS: Cops should really have the option of KOing people.
     
  12. ACR4V3N

    ACR4V3N Blue Belt

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    Dude come on everyone knows what you need to train for which is:
    Catching bullets with your teeth.
    Basic one touch knock outs
    Basic one touch kills
    Basic skills with a butterfly knife

    Ok Im Jk.
    I think you should focus more on punches then other stuff. One of the muay thai instructors is a cop and he is more into striking, but does some Brazilian jujitsu.
    Still I would say easy striking (punches, kicks, knees [not elbows, and not knees to the head])
     
  13. demonx

    demonx Blue Belt

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    My 2 cents.

    I am not a police officer, but I have worked in an environment where I had to arrest people. I have also taught police officers via private lessons.

    One thing I can assure you is that police cannot do anything violent or they will be charge. Therefore anything like Krav Maga, Thai, boxing etc is all out the window.

    I had an officer come in for a baton private lesson and 90% of the techniques I had prepared he said were too violent for te job. Basicly the best baton techniques were the ones that ended in a lock/submission.

    My experiance in training with officers is they are mainly concerned about knife/needle attacks.

    Hapkido is a very good martial art that can be addapted and used for the police application. Think about it, Hapkido was originally used by Royal guards to protect the Korean Royals etc, now it is used by the Korean police as their hand to hand combat, it is also used my the Korean special forces for the same reason.

    My BJJ training also comes in handy for the additional ground control situations, but the arresting side of Hapkido if used successfully does not allow for the ground game, as tere is an arrest made before it goes that far, even if it hits the ground.
     
  14. bdweezil6998

    bdweezil6998 Blue Belt

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    My JKD club trains officers. We work BJJ as well as trapping (wing chun). The emphasis on trapping so that they learn how to get someone's arms tied up and behind their back so they can be cuffed. My instructor is familiar with what police aren't allowed to do on the street, so sometimes he modifies some of the technique for them to keep them away from lawsuits on the street. I know you can argue the practicality of wing chun duing competative fighting, but in this instance, it shows its usefulness.

    A drill you might want to try from time to time is get a blue gun and a duty belt. One of the things we do is have someone put on the belt and another person tries to get the gun away from them. Definately has practical application on the streets as you learn how to protect your gun during a scuffle.

    There's also a practice gun called a red gun. You can put that losely in your holster and practice doing techniqe. The gun will keep trying to fall out on its own, so you learn how to modify your technique to keep it stable in your holster.

    From a cops perspective, it would be nice to just be able to charge in and beat the crap out of every scumbag. But since you never know who's gonna have a video camera or kickass lawyer, you have to always be thinking of your pension.
     
  15. ThaiBoxer80

    ThaiBoxer80 Orange Belt

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    Im not a police officer but I did graduate from the police academy. My main defensive tactics instructor was a Hapkido BB and studied grappling all around. We went over wrist locks and wrist takedowns along with other takedowns. We did do a lot of BJJ and muay Thai also, and thats what I would train if I was an officer. Obviously you dont want to jump guard, but come on there's way more to it than that. They never once told us to jump guard but we learned to fight off our backs and do sweeps. Pretty much all our standup was muay Thai.
     
  16. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I don't think Krav or something like the weapons defense tactics that are in Kali are "too violent". There's also different Policies for different Departments. I asked a Hollywood (Florida) Officer the other day about this and he said they don't worry about getting in trouble, but their main objective is to cuff the person being apprehended. He said, however, that one of the things they worry about most is indeed knives or close-range weapons of the like. The accolades you give Hapkido, I don't see how something used by a Special Forces unit in Korea is more violent than the Special Forces tactics used by Israel, it's all combat-oriented. But I tell you what, this Officer I spoke with tore his ACL in a fight, why? Bad stance. My ex-ste-father is also a Hollywood Police Officer and had his knees blown-uot in a fight that remained standing the whole time. So I don't think it's a bad idea to learn a viable striking Art, and one with ample weapons drills even if just to know what to do.
     
  17. Todd Gack

    Todd Gack Dutch

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    The combat systems for our PD are mainly Judo based with an emphasis on joint manipulation, throwing and trapping. I'm not a police officer but members here in Vancouver stress that they try to do the least amount of damage possible, so striking seems to be the last resort. As stated most Officers here focus on getting the subject on the ground and cuffed as soon as possible SO grappling plays a HUGE role.

    I'm thinking about signing up for the VPD judo club.
     
  18. eljamaiquino

    eljamaiquino Blue Belt

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    Judo and Krav maga are good. Krav teaches weapons awareness and disarmamnet. Judo teachesgreat clinch work, excellent takedowns, and pinning. As a police officer, you'll be needing hold downs and takedowns a lot more than triangle chokes, kimuras, etc...

    If you're not shooting the guy, take downs, holding him down and cuffing will be the extent of a cop's physical combat.

    If the guy is armed, why would you hit him when you've got a gun? If you don't have a firearm, your first step will either be to run away or disarm. If the guy is unarmed, you will need to take him down and cuff him. If you punch and kick the guy into oblivion, its lawsuit city. Cops are expected to be able to handle unarmed suspects without causing visible injures. Unrealistic, but expected..

    BJJ is a bad choice. You shuld not spend that much time on the ground to warrant that. Judo newaza should be sufficient. The faster pace will more applicable to police situations anyways..
     
  19. demonx

    demonx Blue Belt

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    Krav Maga is kind of like Hapkido with lots of groin strikes and eye gouges added.

    All the throws, escapes, holds, joint locks etc that Krav Maga use are the same as hapkido, it just comes from a "newer" scene. Just like all BJJ's stuff is the same as traditional Jiu'Jitsu, its just a "newer" scene and made out to be the latest and greatest when its really old news.

    Funny this topic is current, as I just gave a senior Seargent a private lesson yesterday. We mostly worked on clinch entries and takedowns from the clinch. Also worked on a bit of ground wrestling, except he says you cannot use most of it as your utility belt digs in.

    I asked him about being in guard and how easy it would be for the other to pull his own gun on him and he said it would not be a concern, the gun is not too easy to get out and he'd have the person under control before they got a chance. If it were me I would still not want to be in that position and I let him know that.
     
  20. Begets

    Begets White Belt

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    Antant has really hit the heart of the matter, imo. If you're standing back far enough to throw kicks and punches, you should be whomping the guy with your stick or pepper spraying him (kicking or punching someone into submission is not ideal) to keep him at bay. Judo teaches all the techniques that antant mentioned, and has a very long history with law enforcement. The strategy of taking your opponent to the ground while remaining standing yourself is ideally suited for LEO's (moreso than BJJ).

    Good luck.
     

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