What stage do you believe UFC is at?

[David Street]

UFC Names IBM as First-Ever Official AI Partner​

IBM and UFC to develop UFC Insights Engine built with IBM watsonx to offer enhanced fight analysis across viewing platforms.

Hope not like PFL Smart Cage where useless information blocks the fights.

 

[LostMyBlackBelt]

Skills wise, some of the guys are exceptional. Ilia, Aspinall and Islam are up there with the best the sport has seen.
The problems are that outside of the top few, most divisions don't have much to offer.
Aspinall, Pereira, Dricus, Topuria and Islam can all clean out their divisions with one, maybe 2 wins.

LOL, real skilled, he did not even know how to throw a punch recently.

 

[PaulieVegas27]

The state where it is just waiting for Dana White to retire so it can grow even bigger.

 

[podsox]

Wwe 2009

 

[Rubios]

Wow. What an unexpected bump of my summer post.

I was, am, not -very- interested on the path of the UFC as a business/trend/show.

But as a sport.
The two sports (besides boxing/KB/MMA) I've followed from my childhood (football, the one that's actually played with the feet, and NBA) have evolved to the point of becoming whole different games.

Let's take NBA. I'm not talking about "players are better athletes now", but tactics and approach.
Jordan is the GOAT, IMO. No discussion. But Jordan's trademark were his fadeaway mid-range shots. He barely shot 3s and went to the low post a lot.

Prime Durant, today's Jokic or Luka on a good day will outplay him everywhere.
And obviously D'Antoni's Rockets, GWS (best team ever) and current Celtics will easily sweep the 3-peat Bulls.
The game was a bottle neck in the paint and now is 5 guys surrounding the 3 point line.
Football's defense consisted on installing a barrier in front of the goalkeeper, and now it's about defending in the opposite field.

Deep stat analysis and understanding of the game has led to tactics that seemed absurdly counter-intuitive.
And produced players/athletes that couldn't exist in another era.

If you asked a NBA head coach from ten years ago to define his ideal big man, he would never imagine a player like Jokic.
If you asked 15 years ago the same question about a PG, he would never imagine Curry.

Even if martial arts or combat sports on his own are set long ago (boxing is boxing, it will not change significantly), "MMA on a cage" is still a newcomer.

I'd like you to try to imagine where the UFC is heading to as a sport.

And if, let's say JJ or GSP (I don't care) are our Michael Jordan, or we are still on a much earlier developing stage and they are our Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain, and 20 years from now they will be seen as statistic anomalies, a product of the old ages of the sport.

 

[muaythaibeast]

LOL, real skilled, he did not even know how to throw a punch recently.

You mean when he threw at a punch bag, the sole goal of which is just to throw as hard as possible? Watch the rest of that clip and he's matching the kickboxing GOAT, who's a regular training partner, so he must have some idea

 

[Ian]

UFC is on the downward stage. It’s losing popularity, losing fans, and losing fighters with any appeal. It’s actually become even more of a fringe sport with watered down cards and unlikeable athletes. It’s the sports version of disco. I enjoy disco music but most people hate it with a passion just like the UFC.

This is how I feel but I don’t know if the numbers reflect this reality.

 

[Rubios]

Just to keep it short and straight to the point.

JJ/GSP/Silva (I don't care, it's for the sake of the reasoning) will be our Michael Jordan...
...meaning some years from now we will have objectively better fighters but they will still be considered by many the GOAT (achievements, legacy, domination).

...Or we are still in a stage so early that they are our Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain; and 20 years from now his resume will be seen as an anomaly product of the "old ages" of the sport?

Wilt was FAR more dominant than Jordan, Russ has 11 rings.
But -although they are obviously all time greats- no one regards them as the best to ever do it.

 

[jooohnmatrix]

We’re still in the beginning phase. Partly why I find it so cringeworthy that every few years people argue about a newbie being the goat. I think it will go through many phases and probably be fifty to 100 years before it peaks.

 

[Evbo]

The UFC is at the stage where they're announcing Jon Jones as the Undisputed HW Champion despite being the most disputed champion in all of UFC's modern history. That fact + powerslap should tell you all about where the UFC is at with the current people at the helm

 

[BowserJr]

I made another thread two or three days ago that quickly became lol'ed because of bad takes, so...

The thing is: NBA, NFL, football (I'm from Spain, so I mean soccer I guess)... have evolved a huge leap once advanced stats/data analysis set in.

NBA is 75+ years old, most popular sports competition in the world from the early 90s (I was a Jordan's witness, man I'm old...) and still, no coach back then could foresee a team playing like the Warriors or the current Celtics.
No coach could ask for a player like Curry, Jokic or Luka. They would never "happened", the game just wasn't there yet.

"MMA on a cage" is very, very young and still niche even if the martial arts involved stand for centuries: they were not crafted or teached for this means.

Do you believe UFC will evolve as it keeps growing, producing not "better" athletes per se, but athletes that will approach fights in ways we may feel counterintuitive but will prove effective?

TL;DR Will the UFC undergo some pivotal landmark due to advanced stats, like D'Antoni's Suns or GSW? Will it guide fighters towards a whole different fight game, as if we compared the way Kareem and Jokic play?

The only thing that's changed basketball is the rules and the fact that the worst players now are better than the worst of yesteryear.

That 2nd fact is the only think that has changed in soccer and mma too.

Fighter skill from 185-HW has actually gone down at the top

 

[Ibm]

Well I almost answered this question in the other thread, but refrained since I don't know too much basketball in detail. But my impression is this

Was like the "Jordan" era, and we're in a slight lull but we will get crazy fighters (again) soon. Maybe it'll look something like the golden era again. Ruleset and policy changes I think will be necessary to facilitate it though

This was the prime, hands down. The most talented fighters ever.

 

[JBJ was here]

The only thing that's changed basketball is the rules and the fact that the worst players now are better than the worst of yesteryear.

Not at all true. The big thing that's changed is that people finally did some basic analysis and realized that shooting 35% from three is much better than shooting 45% from mid-range. That's changed not just shot selection but training as well.

 

[muaythaidon1]

I've watched way less MMA in the last 18 months and replaced it with Boxing. Granted I've been traveling the last year but nonetheless UFC and MMA and general is getting stale for me.

I can't think of the last UFC fight that got me as excited as the Bivol vs Beterbiev or Tyson - Usyk fights. Edit, or the Spence vs Crawford fight.

 

[BowserJr]

Not at all true. The big thing that's changed is that people finally did some basic analysis and realized that shooting 35% from three is much better than shooting 45% from mid-range. That's changed not just shot selection but training as well.

They're more comfortable shooting threes because defense is forced to be weak AF. Miller and Bird would likely have more 3s than curry with the current rules. That's just 1 rule change example

 

[El Panteron]

LOL, real skilled, he did not even know how to throw a punch recently.

Did you just volunteer to take a punch from Tommy boy there and see how ineffective it is?

 

[usernamee]

This was the prime, hands down. The most talented fighters ever.

I feel like we're at the beginning of the evolution towards that again, at the grassroot stages, the seeds are being planted and some have sprung up already just waiting to blossom. Several undefeated prospects early in their game right now and more around the corner.

 

[El Panteron]

They're more comfortable shooting threes because defense is forced to be weak AF. Miller and Bird would likely have more 3s than curry with the current rules. That's just 1 rule change example

While you're 100% right on the defense being a joke, there's no way Bird and Miller would have averaged 5 threes per game, they just didn't train them as much. I can see them averaging 3,5 or even 4 as the absolute most, if they started their career now but no more.
Maybe someone like Nash or Korver.

 

[Matt4786]

It's evolved a hell of a lot less in the past 20 years than the 10 years before it, but there's still plenty of room for growth. I think it's gonna just be guys further refining their skills rather than some gamebreaking new technique or approach to winning rounds. I know advanced statistics has changed a lot of sports, but is that super true for combat sports? I don't think guys are boxing that differently now than they were in the 60s 70s or 80s, but have probably benefited from improvements in dieting, strength, and conditioning.

 

[Rubios]

The only thing that's changed basketball is the rules and the fact that the worst players now are better than the worst of yesteryear.

That 2nd fact is the only think that has changed in soccer and mma too.

Fighter skill from 185-HW has actually gone down at the top

I'm not diving deep into the NBA bit because it only acts as an analogy.
In that regard, my point is the way of playing has evolved to maximize efficiency.

Let's take the starting 5 of the best Bulls vs peak GSW / current Celtics / D'Antoni's Rockets... Under past or current rules, I don't care. They would get swarmed by 3s and pace.

Now, MMA is an individual sport.
Let's imagine prime Jordan in his best night goes full Jordan (so they guard each other the full game) with the best players of the current era.
I'm not even talking Jokic or Giannis -though I could, as we are talking about the best players- because of huge height discrepancies.
So take Luka.

MJ would get a bucket of his fadeaways and dunks. Luka would shoot step-back 3s and floaters.
Jordan, even playing as "God disguised as a basketball player", would be outscored (and down in assists, too).
Because Doncic's shoot selection would be way more efficient.

BB has underwent a few paradigm shifts. MMA, basically, has went through just one: from a freakshow to a professional, elite combat sport on his own.

Yes, the roster's depth has risen but possibly we have seen better top dudes 170-up.
Tactics, training, approach are pretty much the same.