What makes ALI the greatest?

[Rachid Ghanoudi]

Ali practically invented the jab in the heavyweight division. Most boxing historians will point to the fact that as boxing evolved over the years new forms and techniques were added as others were discarded. The jab was a way to break defenses, expose the chin, and set up a power punch. Heavy weights often lack defenses and speed. Ali had both. He also had a lightning jab that would control and frustrate the other heavy weights. Til Ali the Heavy Weight Div lacked jab skills. He reinvented a division at a time when it was packed with great boxers and brawlers.

Hence Greatest.

Ever watch Sonny Liston or Joe Louis? Ali DID NOT invent the jab in the heavyweight division, and to say so is retarded.

 

[Cracky]

Better yet.. Gene Tunney

 

[Kansas]

He's not the greatest. He's high up-there HW-wise, though.

Here's my assessment of Clay/Ali:

1. Great footwork--no peers here.

2. Great chin (esp how he could lean back with the punch to minimize the impact)--no peers here.

3. Great scoring jab (but not really that effective--I would take the power jab of Liston or Holmes over Ali).

4. Good combinations (scoring wise, but they were awful pitty-pat).

5. No power (his knockout of Foreman was an accumulation of many factors and his "knockout" of Liston was....well...in quotation marks for some reason)

Since styles make fights, he would beat some great heavies but would lose to some as well. He would NOT beat them all...

 

[5acrossYOeye]

no way HAWKEYES was banned...never woulda guessed it

 

[Kansas]

no way HAWKEYES was banned...never woulda guessed it

LOL--I'm surprised that he made it past a week--I think.

 

[BamBam0099]

He talked trash better than anybody... not that that really matters, but still

In my book, that's the only "greatest" aspect of Ali. I always thought he was WAYYYYYYYYYY overrated and he certainly is not any kind of hero or a role model for anyone. Heroes are people like Pat Tillman who gave up millions and fought for what he believed was a just cause, not people like Ali who refused to serve while others died, married 4 times and has two daughters from extramarital relationships. Yeah, he spoke openly about the evils of this country but he didn't mind living in it's riches. I have no respect for him and his fights against Liston and Foreman were a disgrace.

 

[Bas Rutten Gear]

Rodriguez was part of the earlier Cuban contention that happens every couple of years. Like we're seeing now with guys like Gamboa and Izquierdo (even though he lost to Peterson) and Lara, couple of others.

He was around the times of Benny Paret, Jose Napoles, and Emile Griffith, fighting in the Welterweight division, and is easily one of the best Welterweights of all time. He was also trained by Dundee and in his younger days his style was the early version of Ali, or rather Ali was the later Heavyweight version of him.

Here is is against Benvenuti, past his Prime but you should still be able to see the style similarities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQh5q-rbjtI

That's nuts. The similarities are definitely there. Thanks KK.

 

[TKDhasBin]

In my book, that's the only "greatest" aspect of Ali. I always thought he was WAYYYYYYYYYY overrated and he certainly is not any kind of hero or a role model for anyone. Heroes are people like Pat Tillman who gave up millions and fought for what he believed was a just cause, not people like Ali who refused to serve while others died, married 4 times and has two daughters from extramarital relationships. Yeah, he spoke openly about the evils of this country but he didn't mind living in it's riches. I have no respect for him and his fights against Liston and Foreman were a disgrace.

Why were his fights with Liston and Foreman a disgrace ?........Because he won ?

Ali was a man of his times.......No he didn't serve his country.........but I don't remember seeing footage of Foreman, Liston, Patterson, Frazier or any other heavyweight of the time packing a rifle on their shoulder.....or in a trench fighting off Viet Cong. This is not a slander against anyone.....just a fact.

Ali saw the world in a certain way.......why throw grenades at people he never met when he couldn't get a hamburger in a southern restaurant ?

If Ali lived off of the countries riches it's because he EARNED those riches......and he is now paying the receipt for having earned them......

And yes....you are right.....Pat Tillman is a hero......God bless the man.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

He's not the greatest. He's high up-there HW-wise, though.

Here's my assessment of Clay/Ali:

1. Great footwork--no peers here.

2. Great chin (esp how he could lean back with the punch to minimize the impact)--no peers here.

3. Great scoring jab (but not really that effective--I would take the power jab of Liston or Holmes over Ali).

4. Good combinations (scoring wise, but they were awful pitty-pat).

5. No power (his knockout of Foreman was an accumulation of many factors and his "knockout" of Liston was....well...in quotation marks for some reason)

Since styles make fights, he would beat some great heavies but would lose to some as well. He would NOT beat them all...

You were doing ok until you got to the end of number 4 and then number 5. To say Ali has no power is bullchisi. The guy, while light on his feet, could turn on a switch and go vicious. Was he Earnie Shavers? No. But when he wanted to, he could sure as hell hurt opponents.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

In my book, that's the only "greatest" aspect of Ali. I always thought he was WAYYYYYYYYYY overrated and he certainly is not any kind of hero or a role model for anyone. Heroes are people like Pat Tillman who gave up millions and fought for what he believed was a just cause, not people like Ali who refused to serve while others died, married 4 times and has two daughters from extramarital relationships. Yeah, he spoke openly about the evils of this country but he didn't mind living in it's riches. I have no respect for him and his fights against Liston and Foreman were a disgrace.

People like you are a real pain in the arse.

 

[Kansas]

You were doing ok until you got to the end of number 4 and then number 5. To say Ali has no power is bullchisi. The guy, while light on his feet, could turn on a switch and go vicious. Was he Earnie Shavers? No. But when he wanted to, he could sure as hell hurt opponents.

For a HW, yes...he had no real power. Why is saying that so problematic? He didn't need to hit like Shavers to win. His wins over Shavers, Liston and Foreman prove it...

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

It's problematic because it's way off base. It's a joke of a statement to say Ali had no real power.

 

[Kansas]

It's problematic because it's way off base. It's a joke of a statement to say Ali had no real power.

If Ali hit with power then the phrase "punching power" has no meaning. If Ali hit with power, all great HW's did. Of course he could knock someone out--but that's not the point. Of all the great HW's of the 70's, he had the least power...

I guess that I'll have to admit that SR Leonard hit with power too right?

 

[ouboxer]

best heavyweight during an era of great heavyweights, crasmatic, fought with style, backed up trash talk. Called alot of his ko's in the exact round they would happen. I was watching a fight of his on espn classic the other night and it said he had predicted the round of the ko in 7 of his prevous 8 fights. Kinda like babe ruth calling his shot.
He inspired a whole generation of athletes that you see today, brash and out spoken. He was the greatest, he told you so, and you had a hard time saying otherwise.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

If Ali hit with power then the phrase "punching power" has no meaning. If Ali hit with power, all great HW's did. Of course he could knock someone out--but that's not the point. Of all the great HW's of the 70's, he had the least power...

I guess that I'll have to admit that SR Leonard hit with power too right?

I think you're confusing styles with ability. Of course Leonard hit with power. Guy outgunned Tommy Hearns and at welterweight had more power than Duran at 147. Just because guys like Leonard and Ali didn't fight every fight with a style of trying to bomb someone out ASAP doesn't mean they didn't have power. Both guys when they sat on their punches had excellent power.

 

[Hester65]

I liked what Ali brought to the dance, except for his lip at times, but that is why he did it.

Great jab, footwork, and stamina. Underrated power, but not to the level of the power punchers. One of the top chins in boxing history. Great punch placement, and strategy.

He's top 3 HW at least, if not number 1...

 

[Hammer Time]

he actually imitated another guy that angelo trained named willie pastrano who was a lhw fighter. ali beat some of the greatest hws of all time was one of the fastest hws of all time, master boxer, great chin, great endurance, 3 time champion i beleive. and to whoever said be invented the jab in the hw division i suggest you do your homework on boxing pre 1960. guys like sonny liston would jab and rock guys with his jab or joe louis who threw straight snapping jabs to the face of an opponent. the greatest imo no, but one of the top 3 yes

 

[Ryo]

People like you are a real pain in the arse.

Why, because he's telling the truth? Ali was rich and famous, and that is the only reason he got out of going to war. All the other non famous poor people had to go fight and die. And they done it willingly. What made him better? Nothing. As a boxer he is one of the greatest, and I respect him as that. As a human being, I have zero respect for him. He is a draft dodging coward.

 

[Dit365]

his mouth

 

[BinBaaz]

Why, because he's telling the truth? Ali was rich and famous, and that is the only reason he got out of going to war. All the other non famous poor people had to go fight and die. And they done it willingly. What made him better? Nothing. As a boxer he is one of the greatest, and I respect him as that. As a human being, I have zero respect for him. He is a draft dodging coward.

"Ain't no Viet Cong ever call me a ******."

Enough said.