What leg lock entry from bottom open guard?

[Kforcer]

No, he just didnt know what he had, didnt have any success nor did he produce any champions based in leg locks.

People's dislike of him, especially in the sambo community, certainly hurt him. Steve Koepfer really disliked his criticisms of sambo's leglock game and it ended up marginalizing Sonnon. Sonnon did have success though, in sambo, san shou and probably some other stuff. Maybe not the sort of success as a teacher that validated his claims, but often, for that you need to have a sufficient base of students. It isn't just what you know, it is your reach.

 

[nefti]

People's dislike of him, especially in the sambo community, certainly hurt him. Steve Koepfer really disliked his criticisms of sambo's leglock game and it ended up marginalizing Sonnon. Sonnon did have success though, in sambo, san shou and probably some other stuff. Maybe not the sort of success as a teacher that validated his claims, but often, for that you need to have a sufficient base of students. It isn't just what you know, it is your reach.

Wasnt there a kris ivanivich(?) Guy also?

 

[nefti]

People's dislike of him, especially in the sambo community, certainly hurt him. Steve Koepfer really disliked his criticisms of sambo's leglock game and it ended up marginalizing Sonnon. Sonnon did have success though, in sambo, san shou and probably some other stuff. Maybe not the sort of success as a teacher that validated his claims, but often, for that you need to have a sufficient base of students. It isn't just what you know, it is your reach.

Danaher isnt somw guy who came out of nowhere, he was talked about in bjj circles 15+ years ago. To the point where a guy like dave Camarillo(?) would make his students take a private with him before he promoted them to black belt.
He was that respected with the people who knew him.

 

[Kforcer]

Danaher isnt somw guy who came out of nowhere, he was talked about in bjj circles 15+ years ago. To the point where a guy like dave Camarillo(?) would make his students take a private with him before he promoted them to black belt.
He was that respected with the people who knew him.

Obviously, Danaher didn't come out of nowhere. Which only goes to what I was saying--it isn't just what you know, it is your reach. Being one of the main instructors for Renzo Gracie obviously gives you access to a quantity and quality of students, athletes and competitors that is pretty unusual.

 

[Kforcer]

Wasnt there a kris ivanivich(?) Guy also?

Yeah, he was more of a catch-wrestling guy, but he wasn't going after Sonnon like Steve Koepfer was. Koepfer basically called Sonnon a charlatan. And as the head of New York Combat Sambo and probably the most well-known American sambo instructor, that carries a lot of weight in marginalizing someone.

 

[nefti]

This article is from 2008
"It is true, John Danaher is the Great Sasquatch BJJ Instructor! Many have heard of Danaher. Many have experienced his great teachings. Many have also heard of him but never spotted this reclusive creature. He is not flashy; he is not loud. He doesn’t color his hair so people in public can recognize him. His actions do not quantify him as an “inyaface” personality. He is simply a genius. When you have reached his level of articulation and knowledge, you don’t need flash; you don’t need hype. You simply are who you are. And Danaher is! He is simply the greatest BJJ instructor on planet Earth!"

http://onthemat.com/the-sasquatch-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-instructor/

 

[nefti]

Yeah, he was more of a catch-wrestling guy, but he wasn't going after Sonnon like Steve Koepfer was. Koepfer basically called Sonnon a charlatan. And as the head of New York Combat Sambo and probably the most well-known American sambo instructor, that carries a lot of weight in marginalizing someone.

Why? What happened?

 

[Kforcer]

This article is from 2008
"It is true, John Danaher is the Great Sasquatch BJJ Instructor! Many have heard of Danaher. Many have experienced his great teachings. Many have also heard of him but never spotted this reclusive creature. He is not flashy; he is not loud. He doesn’t color his hair so people in public can recognize him. His actions do not quantify him as an “inyaface” personality. He is simply a genius. When you have reached his level of articulation and knowledge, you don’t need flash; you don’t need hype. You simply are who you are. And Danaher is! He is simply the greatest BJJ instructor on planet Earth!"

http://onthemat.com/the-sasquatch-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-instructor/

Yeah, Danaher has been a respected name in BJJ for a long time. In fact, I actually think I met members of that team around that same year, if it is a Canadian team. We were at the same tournament and I talked to their main instructor about Danaher; he told me that Danaher wrote most of Mastering Jujutsu and was actually talking about how he got a submission from looking at an old wrestling manual. I'm guessing it is the same team. The guy offered me some Canadian strawberries. Maybe they were just a Renzo Gracie affiliate and that was where their connection to Danaher came from. It was a while ago.

 

[Kforcer]

Why? What happened?

I think at least in part, guess like Koepfer responded negatively to Sonnon's claims about the lack of positional control and alleged sloppiness in styles he characterized as "fast wrestling" styles, i.e., basically sambo, Japanese catch, luta livre that had quick, dynamic transitions and fast-paced grappling, but according to Sonnon, because of their fast pace, lacked the qualities of sound positional control.

I bought and enjoyed his book but he did honestly annoy me to. That's the issue with marketing towards a perceived hole in people's games; you're going to tick people off. I think he actually went overboard and overstated and overgeneralized his case.

 

[Os3y3ris]

I think at least in part, guess like Koepfer responded negatively to Sonnon's claims about the lack of positional control and alleged sloppiness in styles he characterized as "fast wrestling" styles, i.e., basically sambo, Japanese catch, luta livre that had quick, dynamic transitions and fast-paced grappling, but according to Sonnon, because of their fast pace, lacked the qualities of sound positional control.

I bought and enjoyed his book but he did honestly annoy me to. That's the issue with marketing towards a perceived hole in people's games; you're going to tick people off. I think he actually went overboard and overstated and overgeneralized his case.

Steve is Bodycombs instructor and they're quite proud of their lacing methods and such. This may explain a bit.

 

[Kforcer]

Steve is Bodycombs instructor and they're quite proud of their lacing methods and such. This may explain a bit.

Personally, I really love Reilly Bodycomb's stuff. Some of his Achilles lock stuff is really great; some of his details for finishing a same-side Achilles in particular stick out in my memory. His "Dynamic Entry" has some really cool stuff on it and it is laid out really well. We communicated online a few times but I would have loved to actually train with the dude at some point.

I never really incorporated the sambo leg-knot into my game, but I thought that was a great position. I did play with similar positions and teach it as well (just because I wasn't using it doesn't mean a student wouldn't be able to go places with it).

But I'm sure that is part of the issue with Sonnon; people who were doing lower-body stuff felt like they were being attacked by him. He actually posted a video ridiculing Frank Shamrock's kneebar technique. I think Sonnon could have gone about things in a different way. When I bought his book, my older brother was really ticked off by his rhetoric, which distracts from the techniques he is presenting.

 

[mataleaos]

Obviously, Danaher didn't come out of nowhere. Which only goes to what I was saying--it isn't just what you know, it is your reach. Being one of the main instructors for Renzo Gracie obviously gives you access to a quantity and quality of students, athletes and competitors that is pretty unusual.

Danaher has also been great at picking up details from people that they either don’t teach or don’t realize that they do. And then incorporating those details and teaching them. I say that as a compliment Because I don’t think that’s an easy skill.

 

[Kforcer]

Danaher has also been great at picking up details from people that they either don’t teach or don’t realize that they do. And then incorporating those details and teaching them. I say that as a compliment Because I don’t think that’s an easy skill.

Well said. That's not an easy skill at all. That's crucially important, I'm totally with you. I mean, that's why we watch film, at least in part, right?

 

[Os3y3ris]

Personally, I really love Reilly Bodycomb's stuff. Some of his Achilles lock stuff is really great; some of his details for finishing a same-side Achilles in particular stick out in my memory. His "Dynamic Entry" has some really cool stuff on it and it is laid out really well. We communicated online a few times but I would have loved to actually train with the dude at some point.

I never really incorporated the sambo leg-knot into my game, but I thought that was a great position. I did play with similar positions and teach it as well (just because I wasn't using it doesn't mean a student wouldn't be able to go places with it).

But I'm sure that is part of the issue with Sonnon; people who were doing lower-body stuff felt like they were being attacked by him. He actually posted a video ridiculing Frank Shamrock's kneebar technique. I think Sonnon could have gone about things in a different way. When I bought his book, my older brother was really ticked off by his rhetoric, which distracts from the techniques he is presenting.

I ended up adding the lacing. I like the position lock and ride that it offers.

 

[Kforcer]

I ended up adding the lacing. I like the position lock and ride that it offers.

You ever try that neck-crank from the leg-knot...?

 

[Os3y3ris]

You ever try that neck-crank from the leg-knot...?

I must say Im unfamiliar.

 

[Kforcer]

I must say Im unfamiliar.

 

[nefti]

I think at least in part, guess like Koepfer responded negatively to Sonnon's claims about the lack of positional control and alleged sloppiness in styles he characterized as "fast wrestling" styles, i.e., basically sambo, Japanese catch, luta livre that had quick, dynamic transitions and fast-paced grappling, but according to Sonnon, because of their fast pace, lacked the qualities of sound positional control.

I bought and enjoyed his book but he did honestly annoy me to. That's the issue with marketing towards a perceived hole in people's games; you're going to tick people off. I think he actually went overboard and overstated and overgeneralized his case.

I agree with him. It was mostly speed based/wild inversions/dropping for legs back in the day (10+ years ago) .

 

[nefti]

Btw i gotta give craig jones and his team alot of credit for basically coming up with their own "dds" system in basically isolation.

 

[mataleaos]

Btw i gotta give craig jones and his team alot of credit for basically coming up with their own "dds" system in basically isolation.

Definitely. They were able to decode a lot on their own.

Now that Jones lives in the states and actually trains there full time I wonder how much he’s contributed to their ideas in exchange