What is Current PED testing?

[jeff7b9]

There are many ways known to bypass doping tests, USADA or others included, especially with micro dosing or taking X substance to conceal Y substance in the body.

I don't mind getting a few guys busted for steroids time to time at all.

Smaller organizations do not have that luxury to be selective and will likely accept everyone, steroids or not, by pretending to look the other way. Doping is a disease that need to be fought, especially at the top, it gives an unfair advantage and is harming health.

USADA was better though.

You touch on an important nuance here.

--> PED testing can be circumvented. <--

In fact there is an entire, albeit relatively small and prohibitively expensive, industry which serves to facilitate those who can afford it to reap similar results to that of the anabolic steroids commonly tested, without being detected.

Part of it is chemistry. They will take an anabolic steroid, alter it very slightly, adjust the ester, thus (when done right) manipulating the metabolite which results from use, which in most cases is what the doping agencies test for.


This has blown up in the last 10-15 years with the SARMS boom, which has providing a major influx of funding to the type of people with the chemistry knowledge and lab equipment needed to produce and profit from "designer drugs". The process they are partaking in is nothing new, basically the entire library of different steroids all comes from taking one of a handful of base substances and making slight alterations to the chemical bonds (which then change which receptors are targeted and what metabolites left over, if my understanding is correct)


There was a popular documentary which was on Netflix called "Icarus" which explored it a bit.




The problem is that instead of creating a "level playing field" most testing creates an even wider gap between those who can avoid to beat the tests and those who can't.


For me, this is one of many examples where I think people often get caught up in the "We need to DO SOMETHING" mentality, where unfortunately they are more concerned with feeling better about themselves for effectively spinning their wheels in the mud than they are with improving whatever it is they sought to improve, because they never stopped to determine that the thing they are doing is actually making things better.
Another prime example of this phenomenon as it applies to MMA is hydration testing, where people will swear it is the perfect solution, but only if they are sufficiently ignorant to not understand that there is a long standing method to circumvent this test which puts the athletes in MORE danger than normal weight cutting (without hydration testing.)

 

[DougieJones]

UFC be like Hamsterdam these days

 

[don't ask]

I'm not making any allegations, but it seems like nobody has tested positive in awhile, unless I'm wrong? What's the story post USADA in terms of testing?

A lot of guys are looking like they are in the best shape of their career, even guys that have been around for awhile, so not sure if that's part of the explanation.

I've asked this question before. Some people claim testing is as strict as ever, but we have no reason to believe it and it certainly wouldn't make sense with the UFC's business ethics.

 

[jeff7b9]

I've asked this question before. Some people claim testing is as strict as ever, but we have no reason to believe it and it certainly wouldn't make sense with the UFC's business ethics.

UFC brass is all about the APPEARANCE of being a clean org.

I expect nothing different with this current testing endeavor.


They played their hand with the Jon Jones event swap across state lines. One day Jeff Novitsky is the guy hunting down PED users, the next day he is the point man on a PR tour explaining why Jones name should be clear and his reputation untarnished becuase of picograms. (Nevermind that Frank Mir served a 2 year suspension for testing positive for the same metabolite)

Up until then a positive test was a positive test, with the sole exception I believe being Marijuana which had an acceptable threshold. Then suddenly trace amounts of a metabolite indicating use of a banned substance was allowed for headliners and the rules where mere guidelines. 2 tier justice system officially established and rolled out.

Whatever credibility the UFC and their drug testing programs had was sold that day to preserve the profits on one event and protect their ability to continue milking profits from Jones regardless of his PED test results. They even made up the term pulsing as a blanket excuse to cover their tracks.

 

[BJJ4Tone]

are you familiar with "the honor system"

 

[jeff7b9]

are you familiar with "the honor system"

I'm familiar with the honor toast.






Cheers to honor.

if you can't come in her, come on her.

 

[Thepaintbucket]

At the time those anti trust lawsuits and call for unionization were gaining steam. The last thing they wanted was for fighter safety to be used as a good reason, thus the USADA partnership was born.

Keep in mind strict drug testing through USADA is voluntary, expensive and can damage or delay potential assets from fighting. Why would they ever do strict drug testing voluntarily? To protect fighters and to make the sport legitimate? Come on man lol

Anyway according to the UFC, they are using WADA certified labs (The Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory) and Drug-free sport international for sample collecting.

If I had the guess, the biggest difference is they have the luxury of not announcing failed test, which they eventually got USADA to do and it's highly probable or advantageous of them to keep randomized testing to a minimal for high profile fights

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Depends on your popularity level.

 

[don't ask]

UFC brass is all about the APPEARANCE of being a clean org.

I expect nothing different with this current testing endeavor.


They played their hand with the Jon Jones event swap across state lines. One day Jeff Novitsky is the guy hunting down PED users, the next day he is the point man on a PR tour explaining why Jones name should be clear and his reputation untarnished becuase of picograms. (Nevermind that Frank Mir served a 2 year suspension for testing positive for the same metabolite)

Up until then a positive test was a positive test, with the sole exception I believe being Marijuana which had an acceptable threshold. Then suddenly trace amounts of a metabolite indicating use of a banned substance was allowed for headliners and the rules where mere guidelines. 2 tier justice system officially established and rolled out.

Whatever credibility the UFC and their drug testing programs had was sold that day to preserve the profits on one event and protect their ability to continue milking profits from Jones regardless of his PED test results. They even made up the term pulsing as a blanket excuse to cover their tracks.

Yep, they were inventing science to protect Jon. And recently they changed the legally allowed levels, for which Jon called himself a hero.

And there are still Sherbozos who think they're being tested.

 

[HeffDoesWant]

You touch on an important nuance here.

--> PED testing can be circumvented. <--

In fact there is an entire, albeit relatively small and prohibitively expensive, industry which serves to facilitate those who can afford it to reap similar results to that of the anabolic steroids commonly tested, without being detected.

Part of it is chemistry. They will take an anabolic steroid, alter it very slightly, adjust the ester, thus (when done right) manipulating the metabolite which results from use, which in most cases is what the doping agencies test for.


This has blown up in the last 10-15 years with the SARMS boom, which has providing a major influx of funding to the type of people with the chemistry knowledge and lab equipment needed to produce and profit from "designer drugs". The process they are partaking in is nothing new, basically the entire library of different steroids all comes from taking one of a handful of base substances and making slight alterations to the chemical bonds (which then change which receptors are targeted and what metabolites left over, if my understanding is correct)


There was a popular documentary which was on Netflix called "Icarus" which explored it a bit.




The problem is that instead of creating a "level playing field" most testing creates an even wider gap between those who can avoid to beat the tests and those who can't.


For me, this is one of many examples where I think people often get caught up in the "We need to DO SOMETHING" mentality, where unfortunately they are more concerned with feeling better about themselves for effectively spinning their wheels in the mud than they are with improving whatever it is they sought to improve, because they never stopped to determine that the thing they are doing is actually making things better.
Another prime example of this phenomenon as it applies to MMA is hydration testing, where people will swear it is the perfect solution, but only if they are sufficiently ignorant to not understand that there is a long standing method to circumvent this test which puts the athletes in MORE danger than normal weight cutting (without hydration testing.)

This all seems like it would make sense.

But then you have Jones, certainly one of the highest paid guys in sport by the time USADA starts, and he fails basically every second test.

I can see what you are saying being exactly what the guys supplying Jon's roids would say, but as his testing record shows, it didn't work.

Maybe that idea works now, but it certainly didn't work under USADA.

 

[markys00]

Either test everyone equally, or test no one. If they wanted to catch all dopers, they could. They clearly don’t. Just make them legal.

What a silly way of thinking

 

[Captain Herb]

What's the story post USADA in terms of testing?

Here is a transcript of a recent test--


"Hey Jon, come on in, have a seat"

"Ok, did I do something wrong?"

"Well, why don't you tell us. Have you done any drugs you aren't supposed to be doing lately?"

"Yes I have"

"No Jon, we mean performance enhancing drugs"

"Uh...no?"

"Ok good! That's all we need, see you in 6 months"

 

[Meathead Jock]

They keep it more quiet now
They don’t announce everything like they did in the past
A fighter could pop and just sit out quietly for extended period

Came to say this. Fighters don't have to announce they are suspended anymore, so they can just say they are waiting for a fight contract or fake a nagging injury to the public

 

[Feaser]

What a silly way of thinking

It’s not silly. It should be an even playing field. It would make things easier if they just made roids legal because they’re awesome.

 

[jeff7b9]

This all seems like it would make sense.

But then you have Jones, certainly one of the highest paid guys in sport by the time USADA starts, and he fails basically every second test.

I can see what you are saying being exactly what the guys supplying Jon's roids would say, but as his testing record shows, it didn't work.

Maybe that idea works now, but it certainly didn't work under USADA.

So Jon popped for Turinabol.

NOT a common steroid. It had its heyday in the 1970s iirc, but the science of steroids have come a long way since then. Simply put, there are much better steroids available.

So why take turinabol?

Because you believe that either they aren't testing for it or that you can avoid the detection window.

Turinabol... if my memory serves me correctly has a very short half life. Measured in hours iirc, like 8 hours. Very very short. Ideal for "micro dosing"

So why did Jon get caught?

I'm guessing they changed the test.

FYI- thats why TJ Dillashw got caught. EPO was hard and expensive to test for, and I think only detectable via blood test. (Also only bioactive if injected, so no possible accidental ingestion, hence why he "came clean" and didn't attempt the Tainted supplement routine)

The PED testing vs PED Test evasion battle is an ever evolving game of cat and mouse.

Advances in science mean that even smaller residual amounts of substances in the blood and urine can be detected.

The pesky thing with the particular metabolite Jon popped for, which I believe was either the M3 or M4 metabolite... is that it is stored in fat. So... theoretically, trace amounts could linger hidden away in fat cells somewhere... until, you deplete your body to low enough Body fat % and pump every ounce of water out of your body and if you squeeze that sponge enough, you can squeeze out that long term storage M3 or M4 metabolite. This is the premise behind which the "pulsing" concept comes from. It also explains... sort of... the pattern of Jon popping for it primarily in the tests taking place fight week near his weight cut. (And you could also deduce that he would likely avoid "pulsing" at heavyweight.)

So my bro science educated guess is that Jon and or his team, THOUGHT they were safe to take Turinabol because either they didn't think the test would pick it up**, or they felt it would be sufficiently out of the system when the test takes place, knowing that MOST USADA tests occur first thing in the morning... meaning Jon could time it so he took it once he was sure he wasn't getting an early am knock on the door and worst case scenario he just hides out in his fort under the Jackson Wink cage

**why bother testing for an uncommon unpopular steroid barely anyone uses when it would add cost to the testing procedure and be unlikely relatively speaking to catch anyone due to much better steroid available?
( anavar, dianabol, winstrol, primabolin , etc)

 

[RoyJonesJr]

Its like the NBA now


You tell them when your available and the random drug test is not random at all

So expect another shift in prospects in the coming years as the juice gods get back on their feet

 

[HP_Nut]

USADA despite its flaws, caught quite a lot. Pre-USADA, testing was a joke, very few ever got caught. Back then, it was usually just title fights & main events that got tested, they even knew when they’d be tested so you had to have messed up your cycle to test positive.

 

[pick999]

If you think they are on it they probably are

 

[Söze Aldo]

Jon's tested them all and he likes em'.

 

[NoSmilez]

Testing is less frequent. They still show how many tests a year. I think they only test people close to the event.

Also ewww at Paddy being Patrick. He got tested once.