What Gun/s Are The Most Practical To Own?

[fittafeis]

Whatever you choose, training is invaluable. Quality instruction on how to use your firearm defensively goes a long way.

+1, the second best advice of this thread.
I'd be more scared of having an armed confligt with Rob Leatham having a 22lr pistol than a untrained idiot with a full auto mp5.

 

[krait]

My two cents is for a shotgun for your home to start with. Carrying a firearm in public even in your car comes with a whole bunch of new legal implications.

A pump is simple to maintain and use. You've got some flexibilty if you want to get diferent barrels and chokes to hunt, skeet whatever. Pricing is cheap for entry level models. And in the heat of the moment they are more forgiving with your aim. Having a great pistol or ar does you no good if in a panic you can't hit anything except by spraying your entire house with bullets.

Over penetration is a concern for me. Especially in an apartment. I don't want to have to worry about missing and taking out my neighbor who is just watching tv on his couch. In an aparmtent or even the average home something like #4 turkey at close range will put anyone down but there is a lower risk of it going through your walls and harming your neighbors.

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

Get a Glock 17 or 19 and a .357 Ruger Blackhawk

 

[My Spot]

Glock 19 (9mm)
Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 pump shotgun

 

[lildog]

Aren't Mossburg's fairly cheap? What type of shells do i need to get? I've never bought/owned a shotgun before.

 

[black koala]

flame thrower

 

[L4u9hin9 M4n**]

Aren't Mossburg's fairly cheap? What type of shells do i need to get? I've never bought/owned a shotgun before.

I believe 12 gauge shells are the biggest ones, 20 gauge are the smallest. The smaller the number, the bigger the shells.

A 12 gauge shotgun will only take 12ga shells

 

[rvc2010]

Got to agree with the Remington 870. Don't waste ur time with a 9mm. Carried and used 9mm sig kahr and glock for 8 years. Get a 45. The expansion is alot bigger than 9 and will drop an intruder with one round. The countless stories of perpetrators being shot 5-10 times and surviving is ridiculous. NY state police went to 45 and out of 10 shooting 8 were kills one was a miss and the other hit a shoulder. I carry a 45 now huge difference. Just my 2 cents. When it comes to guns everyone has their own opinions.

 

[Urban]

Buy a remmy 870. Got mine at big 5 for less than 350 on sale. Its @heap, ammo is cheap (100 shells for like 21 bucks at walmart) and its FUN to break clay.

Bottom line in this thread is to get a gun you can shoot. There's a lot of glock love in here but I can't shoot glocks for shit. The ergonomics are all wrong for me. A 1911 fired like a dream the first time I picked it up so that's going to be my first sidearm purchase. So hit up some ranges that rent guns and try a few out. What works for you is probably different from what works for the guy next to you.

I still vote shotgun for home defense. Its intimidating if nothing else. But no matter what you choose you gotta practice with it. Its one of the reasons I love the shotty, practice (breaking clays) is a blast (no pun intended). It's the swiss army knife of guns! Hunting birds? shotgun. Hunting big game? Shotgun. Fun at the range? Shotgun. Home defense? Shotgun. zombie invasion? shotgun. Backpacking in bear country? Shotgun. It does it all!

ok, shotgun love asside, I also STRONGLY agree with the others that have suggested a .22 for practice. If you are going to go the sidearm route a Browning Buckmark (I have the camper model) will run you around 3-4 hundred bucks, is WAY more comfortable than any ruger I've tried, and 500 rounds will cost you like 20 bucks at walmart... Seriously, you can shoot all day for 20 bucks in ammo. You can't beat that! It REALLY fails as a home defense caliber though, so don't forget to practice with something with some recoil too.

My main tips on trigger pull? Most beginners can understand the concept of sight picture but lose it when they pull the trigger. First, don't think about pulling the trigger. Remember when your uncle told you to pull his finger? you probably didn't realize it but you pulled it with your whole arm. Squeeze the trigger. Really focus on isolating that movement. When you pull the trigger quickly (as a beginner) you'll notice your whole arm getting involved. Which brings me to my next point, squeeze the trigger slowly. it should almost be a surprise to you when the gun fires. Practice squeezing slowly to maintain that sight picture and avoid compensating for the recoil of the gun. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast, the rounds that miss don't count for shit, so work on making your shots count instead of making them plentiful. Once you're hitting center mass often enough, you can start working on speed.

 

[hunto]

The reason I recommend Glocks as good guns for inexperienced shooters is their reliability at price. A Sig is supposed to be as reliable but they're more expensive. The other big selling point with Glocks as far as I'm concerned is the ability to replace parts, without going to a gunsmith. Just about every piece in a Glock can be replaced by the consumer- no fitting required. and, those replacement parts won't cost a ton either.

*disclaimer*

I no longer own a Glock. I shoot revolvers exclusively. But I owned a G20, and it gave me the least trouble of any auto I've owned. Urban has a point about the ergos- some people hate the grip, others like it.
**

The guy that said 9mm is useless needs to learn shot placement. That is more important than caliber. 9mm is just as effective as any other mid-size handgun round; in fact, I can provide a PDF from a guy that worked in a morgue for 30 yrs, and his assessment of handgun wounds was that most handgun rounds wound similarly- 44 mag and up excepted. So you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference in wound profiles between a 9mm and a .45 auto. The would profiles are almost identical.

Eidt: Don't overlook the Makarov designs, and the similar guns (PA63, etc) as they're very nice to carry and 9x18 ammo is super cheap to practice with ($100/500 rds).

 

[krait]

Aren't Mossburg's fairly cheap? What type of shells do i need to get? I've never bought/owned a shotgun before.

A mossberg will be slightly cheaper than a Remington 870 if you can get two side by side with the same features. its hard becasue there are so many variants(stocks, barrel, finish, etc).

A simple plain jane Mossberg 500 or Remmg 870 new will run around the $300 mark give or take. Pawn shops are a good place to look for a good price.

Gauge size 12 or 20 are the most popular. Like others have said the smaller the number the lager the shell. I'd go 12 for HD.

There are a lot of diferent types of shells also meant for diferent things. 12 gauge 00 buckshot is not the same as #7 turkey. Price also changes depending on what kind of shot you buy. Buckshot is gonna be more expensive than bird shot.

Look on the boxes and they will tell you what they are for. Shot number also follows the same as shells. The smaller the number the larger the actual pellet.

 

[corporateslave]

Since most people seem to view the shotgun as the holy grail of home defense, I will post some counterpoints (especially towards the use of a pump):
-The large size makes it harder to maneuver through doorways, hallways, around furniture, etc.
-Length of the weapon provides more leverage and grabbing surface for an attacker should they get close enough to get a hand on your weapon. If you end up wrestling with an attacker you need to gain distance from them just to be able to point the barrel in their direction.
-Requires 2 hands to operate. You can't open a door without taking 1 hand off your weapon. If you are tangled up with an attacker, you have 1 shot and then you have to choose between using your offhand to fight off the attacker or operate your weapon. What if your attacker has a knife and they are able to grab the barrel with 1 hand and twist it away from themselves as you fire a shot? Then you are either fighting them with 1 hand vs 1 hand with a knife, or you are trying to operate your weapon with both hands while they are stabbing you in the face. The same goes for if the attacker has a pistol. This is especially a problem if you face a physically stronger attacker.
-Small shot capacity.
-Slow follow up shots.
-Slow reloading.

A lot of these points are aimed more at a pump shotgun then a semi. Just some food for thought. This is covered in more detail in Fernando Aguirre's book: "The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse"

 

[hunto]

Since most people seem to view the shotgun as the holy grail of home defense, I will post some counterpoints (especially towards the use of a pump):
-The large size makes it harder to maneuver through doorways, hallways, around furniture, etc.
-Length of the weapon provides more leverage and grabbing surface for an attacker should they get close enough to get a hand on your weapon. If you end up wrestling with an attacker you need to gain distance from them just to be able to point the barrel in their direction.
-Requires 2 hands to operate. You can't open a door without taking 1 hand off your weapon. If you are tangled up with an attacker, you have 1 shot and then you have to choose between using your offhand to fight off the attacker or operate your weapon. What if your attacker has a knife and they are able to grab the barrel with 1 hand and twist it away from themselves as you fire a shot? Then you are either fighting them with 1 hand vs 1 hand with a knife, or you are trying to operate your weapon with both hands while they are stabbing you in the face. The same goes for if the attacker has a pistol. This is especially a problem if you face a physically stronger attacker.
-Small shot capacity.
-Slow follow up shots.
-Slow reloading.

A lot of these points are aimed more at a pump shotgun then a semi. Just some food for thought. This is covered in more detail in Fernando Aguirre's book: "The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse"

Interesting.

 

[00 Buck]

Since most people seem to view the shotgun as the holy grail of home defense, I will post some counterpoints (especially towards the use of a pump):
-The large size makes it harder to maneuver through doorways, hallways, around furniture, etc.
-Length of the weapon provides more leverage and grabbing surface for an attacker should they get close enough to get a hand on your weapon. If you end up wrestling with an attacker you need to gain distance from them just to be able to point the barrel in their direction.
-Requires 2 hands to operate. You can't open a door without taking 1 hand off your weapon. If you are tangled up with an attacker, you have 1 shot and then you have to choose between using your offhand to fight off the attacker or operate your weapon. What if your attacker has a knife and they are able to grab the barrel with 1 hand and twist it away from themselves as you fire a shot? Then you are either fighting them with 1 hand vs 1 hand with a knife, or you are trying to operate your weapon with both hands while they are stabbing you in the face. The same goes for if the attacker has a pistol. This is especially a problem if you face a physically stronger attacker.
-Small shot capacity.
-Slow follow up shots.
-Slow reloading.

A lot of these points are aimed more at a pump shotgun then a semi. Just some food for thought. This is covered in more detail in Fernando Aguirre's book: "The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse"

Good points. I'll add that together with heavier recoil and slower for multiple targets, the pump action shotgun can easily be short-stroked by a novice user = malfunction/jam which takes a bit of time to remedy.

The shotgun is highly overrated, and I would not recommend one for HD unless the user is somewhat dedicated to training and knows its many limitations.

Edit: Don't tell my Rem 870 marine mag that I bought as my first gun many moons ago.. But I was 18 and yeah...

 

[Urban]

-The large size makes it harder to maneuver through doorways, hallways, around furniture, etc.

If you're having trouble moving through your house with a shotgun up to your shoulder, having a sidearm in ready position is gonna be no less easy. any obstacle causing you to remove your shotgun from ready position is gonna do the same to a pistol held out in front of you. practically speaking, a 18" barreled pump, isn't going to significantly decrease maneuverability.

-Length of the weapon provides more leverage and grabbing surface for an attacker should they get close enough to get a hand on your weapon. If you end up wrestling with an attacker you need to gain distance from them just to be able to point the barrel in their direction.

this is kind of two points. the first seems silly to me, since having two hands on the gun, plus having it butted into your shoulder is going to give you GREATER resistance to somebody else moving it off target. I'd argue that it's at the very least no worse than a sidearm, and in my best estimation, better.

If you end up wrestling with an attacker, it will be true that the shotgun will require you to regain more space between you to use effectively, but I'd suggest that the false sense of security being able to fire a sidearm at off angles gives you is going to lead to a greater risk of over-penetration injuries. Since at that range you're looking at an exit wound with even 9mm rounds. Where does that bullet go when it exits the bad guy? into you? into the room next to you? into somebody else? if you're wrestling with somebody, pulling a trigger probably isn't your best option anyways: calling for help may be number one. Not always an option, but if you're ever in a gun fight, bring a friend.

And I think it might be EASIER to twist a sidearm out of somebody's hand than a shotgun. more points of contact with a shotgun, and greater ability to hold onto it.

-Requires 2 hands to operate. You can't open a door without taking 1 hand off your weapon. If you are tangled up with an attacker, you have 1 shot and then you have to choose between using your offhand to fight off the attacker or operate your weapon. What if your attacker has a knife and they are able to grab the barrel with 1 hand and twist it away from themselves as you fire a shot? Then you are either fighting them with 1 hand vs 1 hand with a knife, or you are trying to operate your weapon with both hands while they are stabbing you in the face. The same goes for if the attacker has a pistol. This is especially a problem if you face a physically stronger attacker.

First, I can fire my shotgun accurately with one hand butting it up to my shoulder. If you're dumb enough to sacrifice your trigger hand to open a door, then you probably shouldn't be trying to defend your home with a gun anyways.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that a shotgun doubles as a club. So if they have a knife, I've still got reach on my side. What's more, if you're assailant has the wherewithal to arm himself with a knife, the stealth to sneak up on you, the balls to confront a gun toting homeowner with only a blade, and the ability to get the gun off target, you have more problems than just firearm selection. Honestly, while it's a good worst case scenario, it might be the least likely of unlikely things that could happen.

-Small shot capacity.

It's no 10 round mag (fuck you california gun laws) but the 6 shell magazine should be MORE than enough to scare off or hit a threat... or 6. If you're chasing somebody around your house with your sight picture emptying a 15 shot mag in the process, you should probably reassess your firearms proficiency, and whether or not the law is going to be on your side. True, if they're coming at you or your family, I believe in keep shooting until you're empty, but 6 shotshells (even with bird shot) should be plenty to take down an attacker.

-Slow follow up shots.

not to toot my own horn, but I can break three hand thrown clays at once with three shots and I can empty my 6+1 capacity in less than 2 seconds. How quickly do you want to pump out lead? It's certainly slower than a semi-auto, but REALISTICALLY how much firepower do you really need.

-Slow reloading.

this is fair. If you are in a horrid situation, you're being invaded, zombies are breaking through your front door, the terrorists are attacking, or you're just making swiss cheese out of your house as fast as possible, reloading is going to take some time. With shotguns in combat, you reload every time you get the chance. While it is slower, the magazine CAN be reloaded without disarming the gun. With a shell in the chamber I can refill the tube without being helpless.

A lot of these points are aimed more at a pump shotgun then a semi. Just some food for thought. This is covered in more detail in Fernando Aguirre's book: "The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse"

In terms of combat, I don't think the shotgun is a catch all. I'd much rather have an AR or AK. But for home defense, where a missed shot means it could go into the next room where your family is, I like the shotgun. true, most shot (and all slugs) are going to go through walls, but with significantly less lethality than a bullet.

Whats more, most of us don't face combat on a regular basis. the shotgun's spread (while often WAY over-estimated) does help to compensate for trouble aiming due to panic. I can shoot skeet all day, but somebody breaks into my house, and no matter how well I've done at the gun range, I'm still going to be on edge.

It's not a perfect gun for everything, but it can do most thing pretty well, and I'd argue with proper training, it's particularly well suited to home defense. there's a video out there of an untrained woman firing nine shots with a .45 acp 1911, a .223 AR15, and a shotgun. Of the three guns she couldn't complete the task with the shotgun because the recoil was too uncomfortable, and the ar-15 was most accurate. So there is an argument for other firearms for home defense, and a good reason to make sure your gun fits you and your purposes. Better that somebody unload with a .22 and make every shot count than miss 10 times with something more powerful.

I love the 870, but if you can't make it work for you, it's worthless. Those were good points CorporateSlave, and certainly something to consider should you choose a scattergun for home defense or combat purposes.

 

[hunto]

not to toot my own horn, but I can break three hand thrown clays at once with three shots and I can empty my 6+1 capacity in less than 2 seconds.

Dayum!! You have been BUSY!

One thing for all to consider: Home invasions are being reported as being done by more than one person more and more often these days, and that makes capacity that much more important. The Connecticut HI trial that recently was in the media was done by 2 men.

Now, if you want the best of both worlds, consider a Saiga 12 gage (or 20 gage) shotgun. Mag-fed, 20 rd drums available too, based on the reliable AK design.

Saiga 12ga Shotgun Part #SAI-12

ProMag Saiga 12GA 20rd Drum #DRUM-SAI12-20RD

 

[finnegan]

I don't think shotguns are overrated as much as overrepresented. Lots and lots of people have shotguns, so more people will have used them in a home defense scenario than say an SKS, SCAR, or even a carbine such as the Beretta CX4 or an AR style carbine (which are great choices if you want a shoulder fired weapon that is both semi auto and won't shoot through two houses, three nuns, and a panda.)

 

[L4u9hin9 M4n**]

Good call on the carbines. I was thinking the same thing.Though the two you listed above are 9mms I believe.

Kel-Tec has carbines that fire much bigger rifle rounds. And there are carbines that fire the bigger pistol rounds like 40 magnums and such.

 

[hunto]

And there are carbines that fire the bigger pistol rounds like 40 magnums and such.

40 magnum?

 

[jlagman]

40 magnum?

Does he mean 10 mm Auto? :icon_lol:

Either way, there's no Kel Tec Sub 2000 chambered in 10 mm, regardless of how much some of us want there to be one.

On a side note, I was at the range today and rented an 870 and I've got to say, I love ghost ring sights. The first time I fired an 870, it was with the front bead only, which was very weird to me. When I buy an 870, I'll go with ghost ring sights for sure.