What does P4P actually mean?

[Bear Faced Liar]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_for_pound

It is a subjective ranking for fighters adjusted to compensate for their weight class.

Think of it this way. If there is a magical shrink ray that can reduce Ngannou to 125bs, can this Ngannou - with his strengths and fighting techniques/strategies - beat someone like Mighty Mouse? Or if there is a similar magical growth ray that can size up MM to 260lbs - will that version of MM beat Ngannou?

As many have rightfully called it, this is a popularity contest. How a 125lbs Ngannou Vs MM imaginary fight turns out all depends who you are asking. Some will say MM will flying armbar 125lbs Ngannou. Others will say 125lbs Ngannou's punching power - even when it is generated from a 125lbs body - will KO MM. This a fantasy fight that will never happen.

Once we are clear on this, let's move to the issue on hand - the Islam Vs Volk fight. In this case, there is no need for a magical shrink ray. Both fighter did meet in the octagon for a 155lbs fight. And Islam won.

Although I am a huge Volk fan (Ozzy Ozzy Ozzy Oi Oi Oi), I can empathise with Islam supporters on their disappointment that he is still not P4P ranked over Volk, despite beating the latter in a sanctioned bout, at a determinate weight class. It just doesn't make sense to me from a definition of the term P4P.

And if anyone wants to hold onto the "but Volk isn't really 155lbs" argument - sorry bro, but he made weight for that 155lbs fight didn't he? If you do not accept that, then on the same logic you'll have to reject the results of any fight past/present/future, since there will always be someone cutting more weight than the other.

Let's just be gracious here. Our boy lost, but he had a good showing and gave Islam a solid pummeling. Volk's stock has risen in my eyes. If even the 155lbs champ cannot submit him, I am not sure who else at 145lbs could. Volk looks quite invincible at 145lbs now.

Heck, if anything Islam should be worried. Ortega was closer to submitting Volk than he ever was. And he was getting the crap beat out of him in the final minute. Dude has to be saved by he bell. Post-fight interview in the Octagon he was panting and seemed overwhelmed. 155lbs fighters will be very excited to get the next stab at the title.

No disrespect to Islam though. He is a good fighter. Just not as dominant as Khabib.

 

[Benoitthegr8]

Origination of the P4P rankings


Sherdog Heavies...


The most popular MMA sub-forum where 6’5” 250 lb Giants wastefully expend energy debating imaginary metrics designed by manlet journalist to promote diminutive fighters. This fictitious metric called Pound for Pound literally has zero bearing on an aspect of the sport and determines absolutely nothing.


The history of P4P goes back to the era when names like Sugar Ray Robinson or Jake LaMotta were considered the best boxers on the planet. Sugar Ray was undefeated at WW and below, however Robinson wanted to challenge himself and moved up to compete at MW. However, Sugar Ray was often at a considerable stature disadvantage to the opposition, thus getting mixed results. To the Sugar Ray proponents this was considered an unfair advantage that nullified the fact that Ray was the more skillful fighter... they wouldn’t sit idle while this atrocity played out


Sugar Ray unknowingly had an organization of devious fanatics, an influential group of manlets who would use clandestine means to achieve their agenda. The group included rogue boxing journalist, politicians, members of the athletic commissions, bookmakers, as well as members from the major organized crime families. Sugar Ray Robinson was the People’s Champion, this group pulled the strings from the shadows, they possessed an absolute stranglehold on the boxing media, they controlled and drove the narrative. Their goal was to propagate the status of their Champion regardless of record or results, while simultaneously increasing the public interests and perception of the lighter divisions, in turn this would promote the overarching objective of manlet legitimacy.


Thus the Pound For Pound title was introduced into existence, a metric conceived by manlets designed to thrust manlets into a hypothetical scenario. The framework fictitiously disregards size discrepancy, where smaller man can supposedly be competitive with any larger opponents in a fictional fight...


The original P4P title going to none other thanMr. Walker Smith Jr.


For the TLDR folks:

In summation an influential rogue manlet group created the P4P discussion as a tool to detract from the heavier weight classes, to promote manlet equality. Thus the P4P ranking was born by manletspushing manletsinto a hypothetical scenario where regardless of size discrepancy the smaller man can supposedly be competitive with larger opponents in a fictional fight...

 

[Davidjacksonjones]

I think the important thing to know is that if the magical growth or shrink ray occurs on certain fighters, their fighting style definitely changes a lot.
E.g. if mike tyson became tall, he wouldn't rely as much on in-fighting and uppercuts.

 

[FreedomCricket]

Tl;dr.


100% fantasy rankings.

/thread.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Whoever's the best at pounding their brother behind the barn.

 

[TITS]

 

[Post 2 Decision]

I think the important thing to know is that if the magical growth or shrink ray occurs on certain fighters, their fighting style definitely changes a lot.
E.g. if mike tyson became tall, he wouldn't rely as much on in-fighting and uppercuts.

Yep, and this is the main reason why P4P is retarded.

A 265 lb man won't have or necessarily need the same skills as a 125 lb man.

We do all know that the 265 lb pro fighter would quite literally kill the 125 lb pro fighter

 

[ThunderStruck]

I think the important thing to know is that if the magical growth or shrink ray occurs on certain fighters, their fighting style definitely changes a lot.
E.g. if mike tyson became tall, he wouldn't rely as much on in-fighting and uppercuts.

If you shrunk or buffed tyson he would keep his proportions which means relatively short to whichever weight classes you shrink or buff him to.

 

[Iroh]

If you have one pound of Volk's flesh and one pound of Islam's flesh, which pound of flesh would have the most talent concentrated in it? It's kind of the same idea as me saying I have more talent in my little toe, than you have in your entire body.

 

[DaysOfThunder]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_for_pound

I

Once we are clear on this, let's move to the issue on hand - the Islam Vs Volk fight. In this case, there is no need for a magical shrink ray. Both fighter did meet in the octagon for a 155lbs fight. And Islam won.


.

They may have weighed the same at weigh in but Islam was 20 pounds heaver after hydrating and during the fight. If you look at it that way, Volk walks away with still being P4P, even though he lost a close decision.

 

[theleerygoose]

It’s a nonsense ranking, but Volk should probably keep it for now. As for Islam being worried, Nah. He just beat the toughest guy, and if Volk ever gets to challenge again I bet Islam has a much more dominant showing.

 

[Oscar Madison]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_for_pound

It is a subjective ranking for fighters adjusted to compensate for their weight class.

Think of it this way. If there is a magical shrink ray that can reduce Ngannou to 125bs, can this Ngannou - with his strengths and fighting techniques/strategies - beat someone like Mighty Mouse? Or if there is a similar magical growth ray that can size up MM to 260lbs - will that version of MM beat Ngannou?

As many have rightfully called it, this is a popularity contest. How a 125lbs Ngannou Vs MM imaginary fight turns out all depends who you are asking. Some will say MM will flying armbar 125lbs Ngannou. Others will say 125lbs Ngannou's punching power - even when it is generated from a 125lbs body - will KO MM. This a fantasy fight that will never happen.

Once we are clear on this, let's move to the issue on hand - the Islam Vs Volk fight. In this case, there is no need for a magical shrink ray. Both fighter did meet in the octagon for a 155lbs fight. And Islam won.

Although I am a huge Volk fan (Ozzy Ozzy Ozzy Oi Oi Oi), I can empathise with Islam supporters on their disappointment that he is still not P4P ranked over Volk, despite beating the latter in a sanctioned bout, at a determinate weight class. It just doesn't make sense to me from a definition of the term P4P.

And if anyone wants to hold onto the "but Volk isn't really 155lbs" argument - sorry bro, but he made weight for that 155lbs fight didn't he? If you do not accept that, then on the same logic you'll have to reject the results of any fight past/present/future, since there will always be someone cutting more weight than the other.

Let's just be gracious here. Our boy lost, but he had a good showing and gave Islam a solid pummeling. Volk's stock has risen in my eyes. If even the 155lbs champ cannot submit him, I am not sure who else at 145lbs could. Volk looks quite invincible at 145lbs now.

Heck, if anything Islam should be worried. Ortega was closer to submitting Volk than he ever was. And he was getting the crap beat out of him in the final minute. Dude has to be saved by he bell. Post-fight interview in the Octagon he was panting and seemed overwhelmed. 155lbs fighters will be very excited to get the next stab at the title.

No disrespect to Islam though. He is a good fighter. Just not as dominant as Khabib.

Runt Privilege

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

it's all nonsense, but still volk is the #1 p4p ranked fighter, and islam is #2 p4p. take it how you will. it means something.

 

[fightfan70]

you guys are all wrong. it is actually a title given to danas pet fighter, to help him make money

 

[chaos_36]

Whose skills are better when all else is considered equal, pretty much.

 

[mjfan23]

Misleading thread title.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Dana's favorites in numeric order

 

[DaysOfThunder]

I get what you are saying here. But if we go by this logic, then weigh-ins have absolutely no meaning. Unless they do weigh-ins before fighters enter the cage, there is no proper verifiable record, and it is speculation that Islam is 20lbs heavier than Volk during their fight.

This is a flawed system, but unfortunately it's one that everyone plays by the rules to.

Yeah, it's flawed and needs to be changed. Some guys are really good at cutting weight and then putting it back on 24 hours later. It's a big advantage. Tito Ortiz is a prime example. At the time of his fights, he usually weighed 15 to 20 pounds more than his opponents. To keep it fair and even, weigh ins should be held 2 hours before the fight. The advantage that bigger guys and guys that cut weigh better would be taken away. I mean, take a look at a guy like Conor who used to walk around at 175 to 180 at the time he was competing at 145 and then you have a guy that walks around at 145 to 150, like Frankie Edgar. They are clearly not in the same weight division.

 

[jk7707]

It means nothing. Because it is 100% subjective. You talk to 100 mma fans and they'll all give you some weird definition of P4P rankings.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

p4p means VOLK #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it means if you transferred the skills to some homogenous clone, that the skills of the fighter would prevail. it's totally fucking stupid and only nerds contemplate it, but still, the fact that volk is #1, you just have to rub it in islam stans faces!!!!!! that's the way i see it.