Crime What did the cops do wrong today. Vol. 1

[Cake4Breakfast]

I agreed it was a bad shoot, but again, the aggressor was the person who shoved him, not the shooter

You don't consider the shooter walking up on the car and yelling at the woman aggressive though? That is not the actions of a reasonable person. If I walked out and saw that situation with a member of my family, I would have jumped in to defend my loved one. And a push isn't a strike, is just a way of creating space, athletic commissions don't even fine for a push at a weigh in.

 

[irish_thug]

Shit, I'm going to Florida next month!

Bring a gun.

 

[Clippy]

LMAO at this super thread mashup - good job mods

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

You don't consider the shooter walking up on the car and yelling at the woman aggressive though? That is not the actions of a reasonable person. If I walked out and saw that situation with a member of my family, I would have jumped in to defend my loved one. And a push isn't a strike, is just a way of creating space, athletic commissions don't even fine for a push at a weigh in.

If he had threatened her or something similar you'd have a point. It's not against the law to give somebody a piece of your mind. It is, however, assault to shove somebody.

The guy who shoved the shooter is undeniably the aggressor

 

[irish_thug]

Why is this in with the bad cops thread?

 

[flashNsmash]

Why is this in with the bad cops thread?

this was a rather bad botch, to be sure

 

[jericksen5]

Again it doesn't matter what the store owner says. In racially charged incidents people lie through their teeth for "their side". Well some people do.

The videos will prove that or its conjecture/heresay. Especially if some assaults happened they should be prosecuted. But I assume that's more conjecture.

The simple facts are this. A guy was having words with a girl in a car illegally parked in handicap spot. That man was assaulted from the blind side. A bitch move. The man panicked and was fearful as he doesn't know the assaulters intentions.

The victim of assault shoots the assaulter in fear, and that's all he needs as it's lawful.

Keep your hands to yourself at all times

No. Just no. These threads always devolve into people arguing points that are uneducated and invalid. Why people seem to think they are experts on these laws without having ever bothered to read about them is beyond me.


This incident has nothing to do with Stand Your Ground laws. And if the DA decides not to prosecute, than there’s a problem with the DA, not SYG laws.


States either have Stand Your Ground laws, or they have Duty to Retreat laws. What Duty to Retreat laws require is that even if your life is in IMMINENT and IMMEDIATE danger, you are still required to retreat by law rather than defend yourself. In other words, say some bad guys break into your house with guns and they mean to kill you, and you retreat with your family and your own gun to your bedroom. And said bad guys follow you to your bedroom and try to kick down the door. In a state without Stand your Ground laws, you have a Duty to Retreat. Meaning if it’s at all possible for you and your family to instead jump out the window and escape, you have a Duty to do so and it is unlawful for you to defend yourself and your family if retreat is still possible.

In a state with Stand your Ground, which is most states, you do not have a Duty to retreat and are allowed to defend yourself lawfully, again from an IMMINENT and IMMEDIATE threat. Meaning you can shoot the bad guys that are in your house trying to kill you.

The big caveat, even with Stand your Ground, is that the law requires the threat be IMMINENT and IMMEDIATE. So if the bad guys don’t have the ability to kill you, or are not in a position to kill you, or are not showing intent to kill you or cause serious bodily harm, Stand your Ground does not even apply. The only thing Stand your Ground does is remove the lawful duty to retreat.

 

[irish_thug]

this was a rather bad botch, to be sure

Maybe the assumption was that someone shot someone unarmed so it must have been the police?

 

[irish_thug]

The big caveat, even with Stand your Ground, is that the law requires the threat be IMMINENT and IMMEDIATE. So if the bad guys don’t have the ability to kill you, or are not in a position to kill you, or are not showing intent to kill you or cause serious bodily harm, Stand your Ground does not even apply. The only thing Stand your Ground does is remove the lawful duty to retreat.

If you are incapacitated by your opponent, they very much have the ability to kill you. More so if you are carrying a weapon and become disarmed.

 

[Ichibanner]

[QUOTE="jericksen5, post: 143128755, member: 83885"
This incident has nothing to do with Stand Your Ground laws. And if the DA decides not to prosecute, than there’s a problem with the DA, not SYG laws.
[/QUOTE]

The shooter was knocked to the ground and faced with a 2 on 1 scenario. As a gun owner who used to possess a concealed carry permit (my Utah permit expired) I don't believe he should have shot. However, he is clearly within his rights to end the perceived threat presented by the man who attacked him and the woman who had gotten out of the car and was capable of attacking. This incident has EVERYTHING to do with Stand Your Ground law. The shooter had "presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm" as quoted from Florida's law pertaining to justifiable use of force. You are incorrect.

 

[PHATV]

Why is this in with the bad cops thread?

Can't it be undone? Why is this merged this way???

 

[Bloody Pulp]

Bring a gun.

And your handicap parking placard.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

lol that is so bad. check out his walk around the car at the beginning. What an asshole.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

Is this true? When teachers gets fired for fucking students, I've never once heard of a teachers' union appealing the firing.

Ya but that's a major taboo thing to do though. Fucking kids is a PR disaster.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

If he had threatened her or something similar you'd have a point. It's not against the law to give somebody a piece of your mind. It is, however, assault to shove somebody.

The guy who shoved the shooter is undeniably the aggressor

You keep saying that, but if some guy was standing next to your wife's window yelling at her would you not get involved? And pushing is creating space to get someone to back the fuck off, it isn't a strike, it isn't an attempt to inflict damage, and the guy didn't follow up for ground and pound, he was backing away when he was shot, which clearly makes it not an act of self defense.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

You keep saying that, but if some guy was standing next to your wife's window yelling at her would you not get involved?

Oh I would definitely get involved. I wouldnt shove him tho. I'd yell at him or if physical contact was really that necessary by how he was acting I'd touch him with teh jab. I'd accept the consequences and risks of my actions

And pushing is creating space to get someone to back the fuck off, it isn't a strike, it isn't an attempt to inflict damage, and the guy didn't follow up for ground and pound

Does not matter to whether he is the aggressor or not. Pushing is assault. He started the physical contact by shoving the guy. He is the aggressor

he was backing away when he was shot, which clearly makes it not an act of self defense.

I agree which is why I keep saying think it was a bad shot, but the other guy did start the physical confrontation

 

[Roaming East]

The point remains. Stand Your Ground laws should NOT be a 'act like an asshole and if someone calls you out on it, put a bullet in them' and thats how its being applied. Zimmerman, everyone's favorite florida bad ass decided to go harass people while carrying a gun and when one of the people being hassled by him stood THEIR ground, Zimmerman shot him dead. Same with this asshole. He felt empowered to initiate a conflict and when faced with the NATURAL CONSEQUENCE of appearing threatening to another mans wife/girlfriend, IMMEDIATELY went to 'shoot a motherfucker' mode.

 

[oldshadow]

The point remains. Stand Your Ground laws should NOT be a 'act like an asshole and if someone calls you out on it, put a bullet in them' and thats how its being applied. Zimmerman, everyone's favorite florida bad ass decided to go harass people while carrying a gun and when one of the people being hassled by him stood THEIR ground, Zimmerman shot him dead. Same with this asshole. He felt empowered to initiate a conflict and when faced with the NATURAL CONSEQUENCE of appearing threatening to another mans wife/girlfriend, IMMEDIATELY went to 'shoot a motherfucker' mode.

How did you come up with this on the zimm and his case had nothing to do with stand your ground.

Even in states with no stand your ground you can start something but end up being justifed using deadly force to defend yourself.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

If they were in Florida, Wand could have legally shot and killed Sonnen!

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I find it funny that people are bitching about the woman getting out of the car to get in the guy's face.

Have you ever had someone yelling at you while you're seated in a car? It's a very vulnerable position. You're seated, someone is standing over you in a dominant position, and they can easily punch you in the face or pull you out the window, and you wouldn't be able to adequately fight back.

You can't roll up on somebody like that and expect them not to feel threatened. They don't know who you are, or what you're capable of. It is an unreasonable expectation for me to have to sit there and hope you're not crazy enough to attack me. You have already confronted me, i don't know how far you are willing to take this

If i saw a random dude in my girl's face, i would obviously think the worst.
The shooter started the aggression. If any man saw some guy in front of their car, yelling at their woman in her face, i find it hard to believe they would be calm about it. He was squaring off with his girl, a push really isn't an unreasonable reaction