just a question i have, what do you feel constitutes unorthodox grappling, or what is the definition of unorthodox grappling ; can you give me the best examples of what you consider to be unorthodox grapplers, do you feel you are more of a textbook or unorthodox grappler. thanks in advance
don't know just generally asking for a general description of what constitutes unorthodox grappling, i have my own impression; but figured i would ask people much more knowledgeable than myself.
That's kind of hard to explain, man. I mean what is unorthodox to some can be orthodox to others. For example, some of the leg lock set ups in sambo seem "unorthodox", yet effective, to me because I have limited exposure to that grappling style. It seems that the set ups are the very thing that makes certain moves unorthodox. A knee bar is a knee bar and a heel hook is a heel hook, but what makes them "unorthodox" is how they are set up.
ok thanks for that explanation; in mma u hear of someone like sakaruba being thought of as unorthodox or having a unique style, so i decided to see if there was a concise definition. In striking unorthodox is everything from the setup to the delivery, there are just a myriad of effective manners to apply said tech; but only a few which are considered textbook.
I'd say Gene LeBell is an unorthodox grappler. But on an individual level, it all comes down to the style you learn and the rules you get used to.
Surly guys like Genki Sudo and Sato would fall in to that catagory??? Sudo simply for the guys flow and transissions and sato for all of Flying submissions? I suppose its in the eye of the beholder but i'd certainly nominate those two. and while thinking about it..... its pretty obvious but Eddie Bravo's stuff is pretty out there? i know Ruberguard and Twister are widly used these days but can you imaging being there when eddie tried them back in the day when he was first using and winning with the techniques? people must have been blown away by what they where seeing!
A bad grappler is someone who leaves himself vulnerable or unsecure because he hasn't been taught another way. An unorthodox grappler is someone who intentionally does something different to common convention even if he knows the risks. Unconventional grappling is becoming easier to define now, because with MMA/sub grappling giving most grappling styles a focus point so many grapplers are starting to fight the same to win matches, even if their styles are different. Judoka and Catch wrestlers both respect full mount, acknowledge the danger of full guard, and know rolling to your stomach can get you in trouble. Before rolling to your stomach was seen as standard in some grappling styles. Even trained wrestlers who compete in submission wrestling know it is a dangerous move so they don't do it. A wrestler who knows the danger of giving up his back and consistantly does it as part of his strategy would be an unorthodox grappler. Attempting a Kimura while in your opponents guard while knowing it is low percentage would be unorthodox. My teacher turns around when he is in his opponents guard and works to break his opponents feet while backmounted. The second the opponent opens his legs, he passes. Very dangerous move, but he always pulls it off. It is unorthodox now. Keep in mind, once a new strategy becomes common it will no longer be unorthodox. 5 years ago the rubber guard was unorthodox. I predict in 10 years it wont be.
I think Calibur's explaination was great -- something that a person can use and works for them but would not work for most people is what i think of as unorthodox.
bases on how you like to move and what techniques you use. Most BJJ guys play by the bjj ruleset, A guy like eduardo telles who willingly gives up his back( A no-no in Bjj) is considered unorthodox.
i remember seeing an adcc HL reel, don't remember from what year, it started with this one guy, he may have been from spain or something, but he was doing strange antics while both he and the other guy fished for takedowns. he got his ass armtriangled btw. does anyone know what i am talking about? i bet that dude's unorthodox
I think Genki Sudo is the best example so far. Unorthodox is basically when they do things that seem unnecessary, and look like they shouldn't really work, but the grappler in question somehow makes them work, and they're usually more interesting to watch. I have been accused of being unorthodox more than once myself.
Its hard to be unorthodox these days the way BJJ and grappling in MMA evolves. A lot of things that were innovative in the past seem normal now. I have to agree that Genki Sudo has to be the most unorthodox grappler that has had any measure of success. His striking is crazy enough but his grappling is even more insane. My favorite is when he twirled the dude around by the ankles before putting some kind of leg submission on him (heel hook I think).
