We don't drill enough in many schools.

[StanClarker]

How is adapting your technique to the reactions your opponent gives you wrong?
And why do the best judoka have insane power in their throws?

Some interesting questions. Absent from MMA media discussions about the fights.

How is adapting your technique to the reactions your opponent gives you wrong?

Sport science thinking. Not really what I was proposing. The error is how you approach it. Judo ain't wrestling.

And why do the best judoka have insane power in their throws?

Define best? Before forum-itis sets in.

Timing and momentum. Perfect judo throw is effortless.
Unfortunately, it takes years to develop those perfect skills. While training we do everything wrong and build muscles form that.

Copycat.

 

[No Skill Gap]

I just made an account to say this:

The Judo guys in this thread are getting super horny. You dudes sound like aikido / fake martial arts energy chi warriors. And I say this with the opinion that Judo is one of the more legit martial arts, it's pretty good and actually useful...but at the same time you guys are talking like it's some Dragon Ball Z shit.

Any martial art or technique in general is going to require less force or channel force/strength/power more effectively. Judo isn't special in that regard, yet you are talking shit on boxers and wrestlers. Okay, well there's also a big reason why Judo isn't that effective in the UFC but wrestling and boxing are staples and far more effective.

I just found that very odd to say / hilarious. When's the last time someone was a top tier or even good UFC fighter using Judo primarly or even secondarily? Rousey obviously but anyone with a brain being objective knows WMMA was in the stone age basically in terms of technique and athleticism for it's talent pool. Rousey's judo stopped working against Holm and Nunes - two actually ~strong, athletic opponents with some semblance of skill.

Prior to that it was what...Karo Parysian? My goal isn't to talk shit on Judo, like I said it's one of the better forms of martial arts but it's comical for the Judo guy here to talk shit about wrestling + boxing when they are clearly more effective. Also you need to factor in wearing a Gi, tons of grips and techniques aren't there or are much harder to perform...it's a specialized thing for the sport of Judo itself (and BJJ gi sure).

For the record I'm a BJJ guy with minimal boxing / wrestling experience too so I'm unbiased here. Idk just rubbed me the wrong way you guys talking about Judo like it's some Kamehameha wave attack that requires no strength or force. Yeah no shit techniques in BJJ require less strength and force too, or specific directional / functional strength.

 

[Russky]

Okay, well there's also a big reason why Judo isn't that effective in the UFC but wrestling and boxing are staples and far more effective.

It is called gi. Judoka do not fight naked.

 

[yetanother]

And why do the best judoka have insane power in their throws?
Define best? Before forum-itis sets in.

Competition results define who is the best. Watching competitors like Kosei Inoue or say Shohei Ono you can see the crazy amounts of power they generate with their throws.

 

[No Skill Gap]

It is called gi. Judoka do not fight naked.

How is that a valid excuse? Yeah the gi is for sport, just like gi BJJ is, but it's not realistic. You can use clothes in a "real situation" but what if people are wearing short sleeves or a tank top or shirtless? Even most long sleeve t-shirts the strength of the material is going to render the grips useless probably.

MMA is fought without Gi-s on, very obviously, shirtless (...rashguard or bra for women).

That is clearly a more 'realistic' scenario. Again the Gi is for sport more so, not to say all the techniques are useless or ineffective. But the point here is Judo is NOT as effective as Boxing or Wrestling in MMA or real fight situations against anyone with with some semblance of training or + athleticism or both.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Competition results define who is the best. Watching competitors like Kosei Inoue or say Shohei Ono you can see the crazy amounts of power they generate with their throws.

And yes I agree with what I think you are saying. = Obviously Judokas use strength too. It's technique + strength/power/force. It's that simple.

The most effective form of Judo ever used in MMA = Ronda Rousey. Now let's all go back and watch the Rousey fights, she definitely uses tons of strengths and muscles through some techniques / resistance in her fights. She obviously has great technique and the technique is hugely important (obviously for the 8th time) but let's stop pretending that Judo is some magical chi energy system.

 

[Russky]

You can use clothes in a "real situation" but what if people are wearing short sleeves or a tank top or shirtless?

Real situation = school fight? I did not have to fight outside dojo since I was a kid. If you are older than that your "real situation" only exists in your imagination.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Real situation = school fight? I did not have to fight outside dojo since I was a kid. If you are older than that your "real situation" only exists in your imagination.

Yeah and you sound just like a tai chi master saying that. I don't get into random street fights either but it could happen, and you could have to defend yourself or others.

Either your martial art is effective or it's not. Judo is effective but not the most effective, my entire point is that wrestling and boxing are more effective for real fights, yes right fights, and for the best simulation of "real fighting" in sport aka MMA. There's really no arguing that last point.

If you train Judo to train Judo then awesome, I train BJJ and a lot of the techniques, especially Gi-centric ones, aren't that great for a real fight / MMA. I only commented because the first Judo guy was putting down Wrestling and Boxing and claiming that Judo requires zero strength. Yeah that's not true.

Ronda Rousey used strength and was the best Judo-MMA fighter of all time (*Women's noted). If you think Rousey could fight 135 to 145 to 155 lb men MMA fighters and toss them like that you are delusional. Strength matters.

 

[thugpoet]

And of course I'm not legitimate as a blue belt to tell black belt instructors how they should teach, but scheduling a 30 minute warmup where you barely do any bjj-related stuff is preposterous.
A 10th planet type of warmup where you drill over and over again would make more sense IMO, as it gives you a solid fundation of moves you can rely on for sure.

I hate the idea that just because you are a black belt you know the best way to train someone.

Michael Jordan is arguably the best player of all time he never tried coaching and he has been bad as a GM.

We should be pushing the envelope and asking questions not showing blind respect simply because you have a piece of cloth around your waste.

 

[StanClarker]

Competition results define who is the best. Watching competitors like Kosei Inoue or say Shohei Ono you can see the crazy amounts of power they generate with their throws.

Not of same opinion.

 

[yetanother]

Not of same opinion.

You think they don't generate a lot of power?

 

[Byrd]

We should be pushing the envelope and asking questions not showing blind respect simply because you have a piece of cloth around your waste.

I took his statement as respect for the time training in BJJ, not necessarily belt rank. Generally I would take the BB's ideas over a Blue's in regards to training BJJ, but I dont think anyone is suggesting blind or unquestioned loyalty here.

 

[NewS]

once I decided on what guard I'm gonna play and what type of guard passing I'm gonna focus on, I relied on instructionnals to complete my game. You can't ask of your instructor to show you exactly what you need to know.

I realised that too late, now I'm 41 and can barely train. Fuck

 

[CFGroup]

Real situation = school fight? I did not have to fight outside dojo since I was a kid. If you are older than that your "real situation" only exists in your imagination.

I'm not stepping in this one....

"real situation" is only patrol LEO, operational civvy security, door security, mental institute staff and a very few others...

...or triggered snowflake vic of the schoolyard bullies.....

This one stinks!

Good luck!

 

[No Skill Gap]

I'm not stepping in this one....

"real situation" is only patrol LEO, operational civvy security, door security, mental institute staff and a very few others...

...or triggered snowflake vic of the schoolyard bullies.....

This one stinks!

Good luck!...

I never said it's a daily occurrence or that it's even likely, it's about being able to use your training in a real situation if it occurred.

It can happen, you'd be delusional to say it couldn't. At a club, a bar, a wedding, randomly on the street or on a train area, etc. Again I'm not saying this is a normal occurrence, and I was mainly talking about MMA not self-defense anyway.

What do you train, if at all? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's some fake martial art or Judo based on that response. And again I think Judo is fine, it's one of the better ones but I was ORIGINALLY responding to some guy saying it was superior to boxing and wrestling in drilling and implying it was better in general because it "used no power/strength" which is a joke.

 

[StanClarker]

You think they don't generate a lot of power?

"You think" is sure sign of MMA trollers. That's what I think.

 

[NSchoke]

I never said it's a daily occurrence or that it's even likely, it's about being able to use your training in a real situation if it occurred.

It can happen, you'd be delusional to say it couldn't. At a club, a bar, a wedding, randomly on the street or on a train area, etc. Again I'm not saying this is a normal occurrence, and I was mainly talking about MMA not self-defense anyway.

What do you train, if at all? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's some fake martial art or Judo based on that response. And again I think Judo is fine, it's one of the better ones but I was ORIGINALLY responding to some guy saying it was superior to boxing and wrestling in drilling and implying it was better in general because it "used no power/strength" which is a joke.

If you're wearing normal clothes when you may be in a self defense situation, training where your clothing can't be grabbed and controlled is more unrealistic.

When you start training in the Gi you find out how much control someone gripping you clothing has, it feels like they're cheating. This isn't the realization you want to come to when a big guy grabs you by the shirt- "no fair, you can't do that!"

 

[method115]

the issue is 80% of guys in bjj gyms are lazy who only go 2 days a week and just wana go roll and have fun they arnt trying to take it serious to get in super good shape

Yep this is me. I know more drilling would benefit me a lot but I just don't care. I'm not trying to go pro I just enjoy rolling.

 

[No Skill Gap]

If you're wearing normal clothes when you may be in a self defense situation, training where your clothing can't be grabbed and controlled is more unrealistic.

When you start training in the Gi you find out how much control someone gripping you clothing has, it feels like they're cheating. This isn't the realization you want to come to when a big guy grabs you by the shirt- "no fair, you can't do that!"

Judo is far less effective than Wrestling/BJJ/Boxing/Muay Thai when it comes to actual fighting.

Yes you can get grips on clothing but it's not great and you are just entirely depending on the assailant / combatant wearing thick, long sleeved clothing. Otherwise a t-shirt collar will likely rip or not provide an adequate "collar grip", and you're just shit out of luck if someone has a short sleeve or tank top, or takes their shirt off / has no shirt on.

Simple as that. Like I said I'm a BJJ guy mainly and I do gi and no-gi but obviously the gi is way more sport and way less realism. Not everyone has a thick ass collar and sturdy lapels for you to latch on to. And again let's revisit the efficacy of Judo in MMA, not too great.

Judo performed well is beautiful, it's awesome. For the 3rd or 4th time, I think it's one of the better martial arts...it's clearly not a "fake" or shitty form, but at the same time it's simply not as effective in "real fighting" as wrestling, superior striking forms, and BJJ are. It's cut and dry.

To also repeat, again, I am responding to the initial claims of Judo being some ethereal spirit form that requires no strength/power. Yeah okay. I just don't fuck with delusion, strength / size matters...it simply does. End of story. Technique is king but there's a limit where strength/size trumps it at an adequate level of training obviously. The best Judoka in MMA is Rousey, let's see her toss a LW male, never.

Edit: Best* = Most successful Judo player in MMA was Rousey, obviously not the best considering male sport I would safely assume is much more technical / superior. Is what it is.

 

[NSchoke]

Judo is far less effective than Wrestling/BJJ/Boxing/Muay Thai when it comes to actual fighting.

Yes you can get grips on clothing but it's not great and you are just entirely depending on the assailant / combatant wearing thick, long sleeved clothing. Otherwise a t-shirt collar will likely rip or not provide an adequate "collar grip", and you're just shit out of luck if someone has a short sleeve or tank top, or takes their shirt off / has no shirt on.

Simple as that. Like I said I'm a BJJ guy mainly and I do gi and no-gi but obviously the gi is way more sport and way less realism. Not everyone has a thick ass collar and sturdy lapels for you to latch on to. And again let's revisit the efficacy of Judo in MMA, not too great.

I'm not talking about offense, I'm talking self-defense. People can and will grab whatever they can in a confrontation. The No-Gi rules of no grabbing clothing doesn't exist in a self defense scenario, people will grab your clothes.

I can choose to use whatever grips I want, I can even train Gi without Gripping. I play a simple game. My comfort level with people grabbing/trying to control me and turning that into offense is whats important to me for self-defense.

"BJJ-Touch me and your 1st lesson is free"- Many peoples 1st touch will be shirt grab, if you arent comfortable having your clothing controlled your self defense is lacking.