We don't drill enough in many schools.

[efficientjudo]

the issue is 80% of guys in bjj gyms are lazy who only go 2 days a week and just wana go roll and have fun they arnt trying to take it serious to get in super good shape

I think its unfair to say they are lazy - people train for different reasons and have different priorities - that 'lazy' guy might be busting his ass off running a successful business and can only make it two days a week, and does so because he enjoys being able to switch off from his business and do some exercise.

You've got to realise that most people in BJJ are not serious competitors (even when they think they are), and that most schools are run as businesses, meaning they need to provide the right product to keep the customers coming back - training like a professional athlete is likely not the right product to keep that 80% coming back, and you can't run a BJJ club on just your competitors.

 

[yetanother]

"To every problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious, and wrong"
Drilling to perfection is not effective training method. Here's a good read from @Aesopian :
http://aesopian.com/blog/2015/06/04/your-practice-should-be-as-ugly-as-your-face/

Elite wrestlers and judo guys do drill. I do love hard positional sparring but there are a moves where a ton of reps will make a huge different. Grappling is not a team oriented ball sport.

 

[lechien]

Stop comparing bjj to wrestling and judo.
Do you really think people gonna pay top dollars to train like maniacs like competitive wrestling and judo?
No way,

My warm up are just like 5 minutes, then drills for 10 minutes.
Topic of the week: 20 minutes
Situational rolling: 6-8 minutes.
Takedown sparring: 3-6 minutes
Then one hour of rolling

Sometimes, I just let my higher belts drills their stuff instead of trying to teach techniques.
I believe by blue belts you should give them a platform to drill and share techniques......instead of turning every classes into a mini seminar which many coaches are guilty of doing

 

[tekkenfan]

I think its unfair to say they are lazy - people train for different reasons and have different priorities - that 'lazy' guy might be busting his ass off running a successful business and can only make it two days a week, and does so because he enjoys being able to switch off from his business and do some exercise.

You've got to realise that most people in BJJ are not serious competitors (even when they think they are), and that most schools are run as businesses, meaning they need to provide the right product to keep the customers coming back - training like a professional athlete is likely not the right product to keep that 80% coming back, and you can't run a BJJ club on just your competitors.

i understand that but if u go only 2 days a week u dont get to control class u d what your told and they should have no issues

 

[yetanother]

i understand that but if u go only 2 days a week u dont get to control class u d what your told and they should have no issues

People who suck bitch super hard if they have to train in a way to will force them to learn stuff properly.
I was teaching a "competition class" and a lot of the loosers where complaining we where doing too match positional sparring where they where loosing both because they where trying retarded shit instead of the techniques we where drilling and getting wrecked by the people who actually learned the stuff we where training.

 

[efficientjudo]

i understand that but if u go only 2 days a week u don't get to control class u d what your told and they should have no issues

That's what my last sentence was about - its the 80%, the non-athlete, non-competitive students that allows the club to run, so you have to cater to them as a group. Each one may only train 2 times a week, but they make up the majority of every class.

 

[tekkenfan]

People who suck bitch super hard if they have to train in a way to will force them to learn stuff properly.
I was teaching a "competition class" and a lot of the loosers where complaining we where doing too match positional sparring where they where loosing both because they where trying retarded shit instead of the techniques we where drilling and getting wrecked by the people who actually learned the stuff we where training.

thats why i dislike white/blues trying to be to fancy tbh it takes few years to really develop strong fundamentals even if u are drilling them daily seems like now lots coaches will show the basics like 1 or 2 times and thats it and they feel they have them down and now its all about fancy stuff

its like the 10th planet guys back in the day only eddies main academy was good eddie would have tons of affiliate gyms ran by blues or purples who didnt have fundamentals and they were always getting injured trying funky stuff without first truly having solid jiu jitsu i feel if a student cant hold someone down in side control mount or back for 2 minutes a piece to a person their side and belt level then they have no place trying to berinbolo for instance

 

[tekkenfan]

That's what my last sentence was about - its the 80%, the non-athlete, non-competitive students that allows the club to run, so you have to cater to them as a group. Each one may only train 2 times a week, but they make up the majority of every class.

i like to have 2 classes at same time tbh since people r so picky guys never go tot he classes they are suppose to claiming it doesnt fit their schedule ect.

so id like to teach more competitive stuff and have someone else showing other stuff tbh it should be this way cause theirs tons times when class is half white belts and half blue purples ect and isnt fair that i have to keep showing upa escapes so having a student teach fundamentals to them and have my advanced guys doing other fun stuff

 

[StanClarker]

I think this is the wrong approach.

When you are first learning a technique, yes, repeat the technique until it feels comfortable. I don't believe this should ever be more than 10 reps for the vast majority of ground techiques.

Once you are at a basic level of comfort, repping the technique more is not going to make you any better at it. You have to actually attempt to apply it in a roll.

We do not do more is better @ our Judo dojo. Some times you do more fits for throws, other time you focus on form. Other time speed, but it's more than speed.

Drilling is not endlessly repeating movements. Drilling is focusing on a single position, and working with resistance from that position. Your technique has to be fine tuned.

That's what I'm saying and that's what are judo class is doing... without really making a big deal about it. Everyone seems to understand the instructor-led emphasis on one way one time, another way another time.

And this fine tuning will not occur if all you are doing is repetition without resistance.

I beg to differ. We don't make the big deal about resistance training which is done here with the MMA influence spread on like thick tar.

Attaining proficiency in Judo doesn't rise from any rock of resistance training, just the natural mechanics of moving a persons body weight through the right technique. Such then becomes more natural. The throw does the work, not ramping to overcome some resistance force. Dumb ass wrestler & brawler-boxer mentality.

(Spoiler alert: How many people do you think have repped o soto gari 100x yet couldn't hit it live to save their life?)

We have just this issue in our Judo classes of course. But it's MMA who sucks at overcoming resistance ya'll talk about. They just ramp up the muscle and knock themselves out... LITERALLY.

In short, it's attaining a certain maturity in action. I think sports people would call it confidence but that's too vague to describe it.

 

[StanClarker]

This is from the striking forum where the MMA competitors have had gobs & gobs of so-called resistance training.
[UFC 244] Jairzinho Rozenstruik VS Andrei Arlovski (Knockout in 29 seconds)
42,770 views
•Nov 2, 2019


Neferti
93 subscribers

ANDREI ARLOVSKI VS JAIRZINHO ROZENSTRUIK

I think lazy training standards are the global culprit.

 

[StanClarker]

Here's a throw I haven't learned. Overdone true to MMA's resistance belief.
Smooth Uchimata
75 views
•Jan 2, 2013


David Cainas
20 subscribers

While MMA, a BJJ camp here, torque's things up to overcome resistance,,, one can see it's unnecessary & throws the thrower off balance and into a rolling break fall type after effect. Without resorting to Judo jargon which I'm ignorant off just new to Judo, one sacrifices the ambient balance and is forced to compensate. Instead of being able to stay in a kind of neutral after moment.

The latter places one in the proper position to consider & effect the next move, technique, whatever, without disruptive adjustment or distracting compensation to avoid being out of kilter.

That's a white belt's knowledge on how to put it. We specifically DO NOT over-throw in class. That is not Judo practice.

 

[yetanother]

thats why i dislike white/blues trying to be to fancy

Actually we where mostly going over Lucas Leite half and even for a while where studying berimbolos.
The loosers didn't want to do anything too advanced just scramble and go for *retarded* stuff like jump for some lame ass improvised toe hold.

 

[Byrd]

Simple solution is to go try out a few other places and see if they work better for you. You may have to travel further or pay more to find the right gym that works for your priorities.

BTW, I agree 30 min is too much warm-up.

 

[CFGroup]

That's what my last sentence was about - its the 80%, the non-athlete, non-competitive students that allows the club to run, so you have to cater to them as a group. Each one may only train 2 times a week, but they make up the majority of every class.

Kids class brings in the most revenue followed by the casual 6 to 7:30 class with the one's who will take it to the next level joining in on the after class practice.
It did bee my bonnet when some of the competitive Turks would go hard on the casuals. Our job is to inspire and help them safely to lower injury attrition for student retention and tool on each other.

There's a clueless green belt in my new club that's driven god knows how many WB's away. I'm outside the orbit of decisions now, so it's not my club to point that out. I actually got headlocked and driven into the mat in Randori that crunched my neck for a month. And I was going easy not to hurt him, couldn't imagine it would get that dirty and didn't early defend.

Point is every club/school is a balance like you say and the kids and casual adults program keep the doors open.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

Simple solution is to go try out a few other places and see if they work better for you. You may have to travel further or pay more to find the right gym that works for your priorities.

BTW, I agree 30 min is too much warm-up.

I live in eastern Germany and my gym is the only in the area.
You Americans don't realize how lucky you are to have 5 gyms with a full time schedule in a 10 km area.

 

[KenkaBancho]

most schools are run as businesses, meaning they need to provide the right product to keep the customers coming back - training like a professional athlete is likely not the right product to keep that 80% coming back, and you can't run a BJJ club on just your competitors.

I would like to go into some detail on your point, which i think is interesting from a business perspetcive. It's widely accepted that most people who train BJJ quit upon receiving their blue belt. In my opinion, the real reason behind this is that these people never truly learnt the true value of learning BJJ, which is why you have so many shitty blue belts who feel depressed that they can't beat purples or from time to time lose to whites. It was never meant to be about winning medals, or even rolls, but about problem solving. IMO, learning how to problem solve leads to development which leads to customer satisfaction.

However, by providing the so-called "right product", the "problem solving first" mindset is rarely emphasized to the students. Instead, they are asked to do no resistance drilling of say an armbar and form the impression that if I get the elbow the right way, if i shift my hips, I will armbar other people. They aren't wrong, but the emphasis is seldom on what happens if situation X happens, or situation Y happens, which are situations that good BJJ players know how to create.

Inevitably, these blue belts get discouraged, question what they've learnt as a white belt, start letting negative emotions and feelings overtake their potential ability to troubleshoot and eventually quit.

 

[KenkaBancho]

Sometimes, I just let my higher belts drills their stuff instead of trying to teach techniques.
I believe by blue belts you should give them a platform to drill and share techniques......instead of turning every classes into a mini seminar which many coaches are guilty of doing

I really like this part - i think past blue belt you should realise that you have to be responsble for your own development and not be spoonfed.

 

[yetanother]

We do not do more is better @ our Judo dojo. Some times you do more fits for throws, other time you focus on form. Other time speed, but it's more than speed.


That's what I'm saying and that's what are judo class is doing... without really making a big deal about it. Everyone seems to understand the instructor-led emphasis on one way one time, another way another time.


I beg to differ. We don't make the big deal about resistance training which is done here with the MMA influence spread on like thick tar.

Attaining proficiency in Judo doesn't rise from any rock of resistance training, just the natural mechanics of moving a persons body weight through the right technique. Such then becomes more natural. The throw does the work, not ramping to overcome some resistance force. Dumb ass wrestler & brawler-boxer mentality.


We have just this issue in our Judo classes of course. But it's MMA who sucks at overcoming resistance ya'll talk about. They just ramp up the muscle and knock themselves out... LITERALLY.

In short, it's attaining a certain maturity in action. I think sports people would call it confidence but that's too vague to describe it.

How is adapting your technique to the reactions your opponent gives you wrong?
And why do the best judoka have insane power in their throws?

 

[Russky]

And why do the best judoka have insane power in their throws?

Timing and momentum. Perfect judo throw is effortless.
Unfortunately, it takes years to develop those perfect skills. While training we do everything wrong and build muscles form that.

 

[fishNjits]

Actually we where mostly going over Lucas Leite half and even for a while where studying berimbolos.
The loosers didn't want to do anything too advanced just scramble and go for *retarded* stuff like jump for some lame ass improvised toe hold.

For fuck's sake, if you're going to claim shit is retarded, then at least spell "loser" correctly.