Wave-like loading

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by k1ck, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. k1ck Orange Belt

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    What do you think about wave-like loading, smth like 3 waves of deadlift:

    3x80, 2x90, 1x100kg
    3x90, 2x100, 1x105kg
    3x100, 2x105, 1x110kg

    I think it was popularized by Poliquin, but used ages ago by eastern europe strength athletes.
    I tried it today and it felt great. I find it a very nice way to build up your 1 rm.

    I think it's much more fun that straight sets with same weight (like 5x5 with same weight)
     
  2. Klotz Shalom

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    Sounds kind of fun actually.
     
  3. Cap'n <img src="http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1955/

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    It's how the Bulgarian Blitz routine is set up. I actually really liked it, more than sets across or escalating weights.
     
  4. RedNeckJiuJitsu Black Belt

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    That's kind of how I do my sets, except I still go for 5 sets of 5, usually, and if I dont get 5 on my last set, I try for it the next time, and if I do, then I add more weight next time... Although lately I've bee doin' a lot of triples, doubles, and singles, but I still increase the amount of weight I use for each set, or try to.
     
  5. Merrill Purple Belt

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    I used wave loading in my last program. It was OK. No dramatic results or anything. I might try it again but use wider gaps in the progression.
     
  6. k1ck Orange Belt

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    There was also an article about wave loading by Ian King.
    One of the waves he recommended was one to three 5,4,3 waves, trying to increase each weight, but doing the same is ok too.

    I did two 5,4,3 waves on OHP and the second one was increased by 2.5kg. I had much fun, and wave is a powerful trick to boost neural system.

    I don't know why, I just get bored doing sets with same weight. But anyway, I became lazy doing 5x5 reps, with heavy weight they seem like eternity. I prefer going max strength for shorter period of time 4 reps and less.

    I don't get how stronglifts.com says to do 5x5 with the same weight. I think if you can do 5x5 with your 5RM, it's far from your real 5RM.
     
  7. BlondeWarrior Green Belt

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    Very cool. Has anyone ever done this with other lifts (sp. squats/bench)?
     
  8. takeahnase watching the swarm

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    I do it with front and back squats, snatch and clean & jerk . Obviously, doing 85%, 90% and then 85% makes the second 85% feel pretty light. This is good from a form perspective. No idea if it has any benefit beyond that.
     
  9. arctic82 Orange Belt

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    The advantage is that you are lifting more weight with a good form 'cos your CNS is primed after the heavier load. Lifting more weight with better form is good.

    Edit: bad english
     
  10. Ascendant <img src="http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg474

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    This was written by Eric Cressey, most of you probably know him. I usually like his stance on most things, and this is definitely one of them:


    My Beef with Wave-Loading

    Anyone who has read my stuff knows that I'm a huge advocate of singles over 90% for strength gains in advanced lifters. Lift heavy stuff with a focus on quality rather than quantity, and you'll get stronger.

    I also love the stage system (e.g., 2x3, then 2x5). Post-activation potentiation has been proven in multiple studies.

    I think cluster training is fantastic as well. All else held equal, do more work at a higher percentage in the same amount of time, and you'll progress faster.

    And, we know that straight sets have gotten beginner and intermediate lifters strong for generations.

    I'm going to be blunt, though: I think wave-loading is the biggest load of foolishness you'll encounter in terms of loading parameters in the strength-training world.

    For those of you who aren't familiar with wave-loading, an example would be sets of 3, 2, 1, 3, 2, 1, 3, 2, 1 (three "waves" of 3,2,1).

    Your heavier singles make the subsequent triples feel easier (allowing you to get in more work at a higher percentage of your 1-rep max). This is the part I buy (and why I endorse the stage system); it's just post-activation potentiation.

    However, it's also been "postulated" that on each successive wave, your singles will improve by some magical number (2.5% is one that I've heard) due to a "neurological phenomenon." I can't explain it, but perhaps the purple unicorn you train with could.

    Let me ask you this...

    If the secret to magically increasing your best lift is simply doing sets of 3 and then 2 before attempting a single, why haven't powerlifters started racing to the warm-up area to take sets of 3 and 2 between their singles on the platform?

    Can you imagine Andy Bolton deadlifting 1,000 pounds &#8212; and then running to the back room to hit a triple with 900 and a double with 930 before heading back on stage to pull an "easy" 1,025? Or, the 1,051 on his third attempt? Sometimes the non-discoveries are as profound as the discoveries...

    And, for the folks out there who have benefited from wave-loading, I have two potential reasons for you:

    1. You read it and believed it (everyone loves the placebo effect), and confidence and motivation made you stronger.

    2. You're just so new to training that you simply needed extra practice between sets. If you magically took your bench from 100 to 105, it's hard to extrapolate results to guys who are actually moving appreciable amounts of weight.
     
  11. k1ck Orange Belt

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    Well, still it's :
    1. More fun than most set perscriptions
    2. Great for improved form

    Why not use it if you get the same results plus the benefits above?
     
  12. arctic82 Orange Belt

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    My issue with that Cressey article is that he thrashes a whole method using a single variation.

    "Your heavier singles make the subsequent triples feel easier (allowing you to get in more work at a higher percentage of your 1-rep max). This is the part I buy (and why I endorse the stage system); it's just post-activation potentiation."

    True.

    "If the secret to magically increasing your best lift is simply doing sets of 3 and then 2 before attempting a single, why haven't powerlifters started racing to the warm-up area to take sets of 3 and 2 between their singles on the platform?"

    He just said that the single amp'd up the lighter loads and now he's going on about how the lower reps amping the higher sets...

    The fail is that hearvier load amps the lower load, not vice versa. Hence you use supramax holds etc to get the same effect on your 1rm(ish) as your near max lift does to your lower intensity sets.

    The loading parameter he's on about is used to pumping up the weight in the triples and doubles. But I must say that it is not the best of examples of waveloading.

    Also the analogy of an world class lifter as an example is always a bit dodgy, to my liking.

    But then again its just one method. But I dont like the way he handeld that.

    Reminds me of an old t-nation article where he recomended everybody to do a lot of training over 90% intensity almost all the time, then he was forced to take it back and write an mini article of some sort where he said it is only for advanced lifters and not to be done day in day out. I think He knows he's stuff but get's abit carried away with his writing.
     
  13. k1ck Orange Belt

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    Right now I'm using 3-2-1 wave for deadlifts, 5,4,3 for OHP, bench, dips, chins and squats. 8,6,4 for db presses, t-rows and other stuff. Don't know why, but I never had a more entertaining workouts.
     
  14. Ascendant <img src="http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg474

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    Fair enough, but I think it still probably holds water if your goal is to beCOME a world class lifter. I think that the wave loading type programs have limitations on just how high they can take you, because of the enormous cns demand and drain required to lift close to an individuals genetic limit. I feel like all beginners, some intermediates, and VERY few advanced lifters will benefit from wave loading.

    No doubt about it's level of fun, though. And you don't aspire to tap out (so to speak) your genetic glass ceiling, then more power to you.

    Er, maybe that's 'less.' :)
     
  15. arctic82 Orange Belt

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    Well, i guess it's like anyother method, you cannot use it indefinately. For someone looking for
    increasind their on rep max the supramaximal holds are better way to wave the load and of course you can use wave loading as a complex where the higher load contibutes to the explosivenes of the ligher load.
     

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