Was Dana White Right To Criticize Herb Dean on Jones vs. Cormier?

They were wrestling. Part of the sport. Herb Dean did the right thing.
 
Shammon said:
What if both fighters just stood in front of each other and did nothing? Are you going to tell them to work and then put them against each other on the cage?

"Wall and stall" actually serves a purpose. It puts weight on the guy on the bottom which makes him gas faster and it gives the dude on top a chance to breathe. These are tactics that should be at a fighter's disposal. The onus is on the guy on bottom TO GET OUT. If he can't manage to, then he lost the round via control. I hate it when a guy puts a body triangle on a dude and just hugs him from guard to get a standup.
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Control is one thing, but it's also stalling if you're not trying to advance.
 
Dana wasn't right on that. We all wanted fireworks in rd 5 but there wasn't enough there for Herb to do anything different.
 
Cormier would have done the same shit to Jones if he could have.

Also lol @ thinking imposing your will on Jon Jones is as simple as saying "use ur wrasslin"
 
Toothlessjoe said:
Control is one thing, but it's also stalling if you're not trying to advance.
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Well he was trying to advance, just at a slow pace because they were tired from a high pace in the first three. When two experienced and evenly matched wrestlers clinch up that is how it is sometimes. They fight for one small position at a time and one move can take away all the work that was done and they start over.

In the fifth round Cormier could have gotten away several times. he chose to keep working in the clinch to eventually put himself in the position to try to slam Jones, and he did. He just gave away the whole round working for that because Jon outworked him during the rest of the time.
 
xP said:
Well he was trying to advance, just at a slow pace because they were tired from a high pace in the first three. When two experienced and evenly matched wrestlers clinch up that is how it is sometimes. They fight for one small position at a time and one move can take away all the work that was done and they start over.

In the fifth round Cormier could have gotten away several times. he chose to keep working in the clinch to eventually put himself in the position to try to slam Jones, and he did. He just gave away the whole round working for that because Jon outworked him during the rest of the time.
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I don't know if you could even call that a slam. At best it was a very weak slam. I would describe it more accurately as Cormier picking Jones up i the air and then dropping him as opposes to "slamming" him which means throwing him down against the mat with great force. It's sad that that was the highlight of the round. Cormier did nothing to keep Jones down either. Jones got up right after Cormier "slammed him" and Cormier did absolutely nothing to prevent Jones from getting up off his back and back to his feet. A golden opportunity was wasted because Cormier was clearly too drained of energy to keep Jones from getting back up to his feet after the "slam."

I don't think Cormier would have been as drained of energy if he hadn't had to cut a lot of weight to make it down to 205 pounds for the fight. Dieting while training in the last month prior to the fight absolutely had to have negatively impacted the efficacy of Cormer's workouts. Then the rapid "cutting" of the remaining weight he needed to lose over the last day or two prior to the fight left Cormier with far less energy than he would have had if he hadn't had to cut all that weight. That's why I started a thread in which the topic was a statement that Cormier would have defeated Jones if the fight had been held at Heavyweight.
 
Dana will complain to please some complaining fans, and then do absolutely nothing about it.

See: Every other time he criticized anyone related to any athletic commission.
 
Blackjack said:
You didn't notice that thing Jones does when Cormier has his back to the cage so close that it's pressed against the cage and Jones stands in front of Cormier and then leans downward at an odd looking angle and the two of them just literally hug each other while not just seconds but minutes go by? Most of my memory of that fight unfortunately is seeing Joneses back bent forward at a strange angle and seeing that weird skirt that he wears over his trunks. WTF?

Did you notice at the press conference after the 25 minute fight that neither Cormier nor Jones had a scratch on him? Amazing.
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Hahahaha, you are fucking funny, son.
 
Blackjack said:
I don't know if you could even call that a slam. At best it was a very weak slam. I would describe it more accurately as Cormier picking Jones up i the air and then dropping him as opposes to "slamming" him which means throwing him down against the mat with great force. It's sad that that was the highlight of the round. Cormier did nothing to keep Jones down either. Jones got up right after Cormier "slammed him" and Cormier did absolutely nothing to prevent Jones from getting up off his back and back to his feet. A golden opportunity was wasted because Cormier was clearly too drained of energy to keep Jones from getting back up to his feet after the "slam."

I don't think Cormier would have been as drained of energy if he hadn't had to cut a lot of weight to make it down to 205 pounds for the fight. Dieting while training in the last month prior to the fight absolutely had to have negatively impacted the efficacy of Cormer's workouts. Then the rapid "cutting" of the remaining weight he needed to lose over the last day or two prior to the fight left Cormier with far less energy than he would have had if he hadn't had to cut all that weight. That's why I started a thread in which the topic was a statement that Cormier would have defeated Jones if the fight had been held at Heavyweight.
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It was a decent attempt at a slam, but Jones's leg sized arm was practically touching the floor, which negated a lot of the force of it.
 
Blackjack said:
I didn't see too much of an attempt on Cormier's part to break free and get back to the middle of the Octagon or if not the middle at least closer to the middle so that there could actually be the possibility of some interesting things happening like shooting in for a double leg takedown or at least trying to suplex Jones. In 25 minutes Cormier didn't even attempt one suplex did he? Why does Cormier spend so much of the time trying to be a boxer when his specialty is wrestling?
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To suplex a fighter, you would have to have their back in a clinch. This is a dominant position. The entire fight, DC was unable to secure a dominant position. This is why he didn't suplex Jon Jones.

When DC is pinned to the fence in round 5, and he's not making an effort 'visibly' to get free, it's because he has no energy to do so. He very well knew that he was losing and the fight relied on him getting freed. His inability to do so is an impressive compliment to Jones' grappling ability.

DC was relying on boxing because his only chance to win, once he realized that his grappling wasn't going to do it, was to score a lucky KO. There were some great shots thrown by DC that could have done it, specifically the right uppercuts.
 
Yep. We needed the same Judges from the last Lawlor/Hendricks fight. NOT rewarding stalling is a trend I'd love to see continue.
 
I don't think Herb did anything wrong.... every time he got close to stepping in someone would reverse position.
 
I don't like separations unless the fighters are far more inactive than I remember Jones and Cormier being. Sticking with Herb on this one.
 
Tranaas said:
They were wrestling. Part of the sport. Herb Dean did the right thing.
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This is the problem. Herb Dean should be helping to clean up MMA and it's image by minimizing the amount of wrestling involved.

If we want "them" to take "us" and "our" sport seriously, we can't have it resembling some American hillbilly courtship ritual.
 
bareyb said:
Yep. We needed the same Judges from the last Lawlor/Hendricks fight. NOT rewarding stalling is a trend I'd love to see continue.
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You know, I used to be the same way when in older UFC, wrestling was the dominant discipline, and used to get pissed at It, but seeing a guy lose that essentially controlled the entire round, that was some BS I can't stomach. He won. Plain and simple. He controlled a guy for a majority of the round and should win. Was it exciting? No. But it doesn't say you have to be exciting to win. It says "octagon control". I don't see It as punishing LNP and wall and stall. I see it as rewarding a fighter for not knowing how to get out of it and losing.

Which Doctor said:
This is the problem. Herb Dean should be helping to clean up MMA and it's image by minimizing the amount of wrestling involved.

If we want "them" to take "us" and "our" sport seriously, we can't have it resembling some American hillbilly courtship ritual.
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I know. And he should take strikers and lay them down into a BJJ dudes guard, cause this isn't boxing right? Dude I agree, inactivity should be broken up after some time, but wrestling is a fight discipline that translates extremely well into MMA, and trying to discourage it is stupid to say.
 
Which Doctor said:
This is the problem. Herb Dean should be helping to clean up MMA and it's image by minimizing the amount of wrestling involved.

If we want "them" to take "us" and "our" sport seriously, we can't have it resembling some American hillbilly courtship ritual.
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If this isn't trolling, you should have your account banned or atleast muted.
 
Blaspheme said:
If this isn't trolling, you should have your account banned or atleast muted.
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It's not what you say it's how you say it. ;)

A lot of us are sick of wrestlers and their slow paced stalling. It's getting less and less these days in the UFC because the crowd usually starts Booing, but it's still a big part of MMA if you watch some of the other promotions. I can barely watch most of the stuff on AXSTV it's all so ex-college Wrestler heavy. My 30 second skip button on the TiVo always gets a big workout on most of those fights. I think wrestling has it's place, but the good wrestlers know how to use it to improve their position, not just stop the other guy from doing so... ;)
 
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