WARNING! kagi competition sportsarmor gi legality

[pattheflip]

The following is an email that I sent Kagi Sports about a week ago, and they haven't responded yet. I thought I'd post it here just so people would know. (This was posted in the Gear and Equipment forum too, but I thought I'd post it here. Mods, go ahead and do your thing if that's not cool.)


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Hi,

I've had my kagi sportarmor (competition gi) for a while. A little bit stiff at times, but generally a good gi. I bought it because i wanted a good, strong tournament gi, and my other gi was too ripped up to be tournament-viable.

Sadly, i discovered today that the sportarmor is most likely not allowed in competition because the collar is too thick. For reference, I'm in Japan, but I believe that the gi checkers they use are the IBJJF standards. I'm training at Alive Academy in Nagoya, and I've had three black belts and a brown belt all tell me I can't use it. which blows, because it's advertised as a competition gi on the website, and it's kind of ironic because "kagi" means "key" in Japanese. Anyway, I was disappointed to learn this because it means that I can't use the gi myself, I can't recommend the sportarmor gis to my friends, and I would hope that the webpage description for the gi is updated accordingly, because it's rather misleading at the moment.

Sincerely,
Patrick Miller

 

[Ninjamurf]

Why is it ironic that "kagi" means "key" in Japanese?

 

[Elliotedge]

Hmm, I was going to buy one of these. Could you do a review with pics, and post pictures of the lapel with a tape measure so we can all see?

 

[Gsoares2***]

Yeah whats ironic about Kagi meaning key??? i dont undertand that either.

Key sounds like gi, with a K so it should be a great gi?

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

Ironic? no...Coincidental? Maybe....

 

[Ybot]

What's ironic is that the name of the gi is "sportarmor (competition gi)", and it is not legal for competition.

 

[Ghost Dog]

Yeah whats ironic about Kagi meaning key??? i dont undertand that either.

Key sounds like gi, with a K so it should be a great gi?

hahah nicely done. also, if youre sending a formal complaint, you should refrain from words such as 'blows.'

 

[Ninjamurf]

Ironic? no...Coincidental? Maybe....

I don't see what would make it "coincidental" either? How about "Kagi means 'key' in Japanese ...and that has nothing to do with anything here"?

 

[pattheflip]

i thought it was ironic that a company with a japanese name sells gis that aren't competition-legal here. sheesh.

 

[Ninjamurf]

i thought it was ironic that a company with a japanese name sells gis that aren't competition-legal here. sheesh.

Not to beat a dead horse but that's not what you said. You said, "it's kind of ironic because "kagi" means "key" in Japanese." But the fact that "kagi" means "key" in Japanese is not ironic. You would have been better served by saying something like, "it's kind of ironic because it's a Japanese company that is selling "competition" gi's that aren't legal for "competition"." Although I have no idea why them being a Japanese company matters in the least. It shouldn't matter where they are from or how you say "key" in their language. ANY company that sells "competition" gi's that aren't legal in "competition" would be ironic.

 

[FlameBoy]

Whats Ironic - is the guys trying to help and no-one wants help!

its a black fly in ur chardonnay,
its a death row pardon, 2 minutes 2 late

Now isnt THAT ironic!!!

 

[Elliotedge]

You guys are brutal sometimes. Way to take a potentially informaive thread and murder it.

"Ooooh, look at me! I can argue semantics with someone over the internet!"

Way to go guys, way to go. You are all so smart! Next thread, lets discuss "poetic justice". That would be equally relavent to a grappling forum.

 

[judogido]

Thanks for the heads-up. Hey - at least you have a decent training gi, huh?

 

[Ninjamurf]

You guys are brutal sometimes. Way to take a potentially informaive thread and murder it.

"Ooooh, look at me! I can argue semantics with someone over the internet!"

Way to go guys, way to go. You are all so smart! Next thread, lets discuss "poetic justice". That would be equally relavent to a grappling forum.

"Yay! Let's celebrate ignorance!!"

A well thought out, well written post does a much better job of getting your point across. If people are wondering "wtf is ironic about that?" then you've already lost part of your audience. If they are trying to decipher your post in the first place then they're not spending time answering your post...which is the whole point. Even you said a "potentially informaive thread." Instead it's become an argument over what is ironic and coincidental which steers the thread from it's intended purpose.

 

[Elliotedge]

"Yay! Let's celebrate ignorance!!"

A well thought out, well written post does a much better job of getting your point across. If people are wondering "wtf is ironic about that?" then you've already lost part of your audience. If they are trying to decipher your post in the first place then they're not spending time answering your post...which is the whole point. Even you said a "potentially informaive thread." Instead it's become an argument over what is ironic and coincidental which steers the thread from it's intended purpose.

First of all, criticising grammar or correct use of language, on the internet is lame. This isn't english class.

His post had everything it needed to be informative. The fact that he chose to make a comment about what might be ironic is actually irrelavent.

Yes. A potentially informative thread. You are right, it did become an argument over the definition of ironic. And you were a major contributor to that argument.

Why did you have to call him out on his use of the word "ironic"? Couldn't you have just said something like...
"Thanks for the heads up man. Maybe I wont buy this gi if im interested in competetion."

 

[Timbaland]

Kagi is stationed in the US even though it has a Japanese name,

Good luck with trying to get Kagi to do something about this.

 

[Ninjamurf]

First of all, criticising grammar or correct use of language, on the internet is lame. This isn't english class.

If he said something like "let me axe you a question," I'll probably ignore it. But to counter your point I think informing someone of their errors is how we learn. We call it teaching. Shouldn't matter if it's on the internet or in a classroom or on a bus.

His post had everything it needed to be informative. The fact that he chose to make a comment about what might be ironic is actually irrelavent.

Actually it had more than it needed to be informative. That "more" was what led to the confusion. I read the post and was thinking, "wait...kagi means 'key'? So what? Why is that ironic?" At that point he has failed to get his point across because now I'm confused, going back and re-reading the post, and trying to figure out what is so ironic. He's lost me (and perhaps many others who actually understand "irony.")

Yes. A potentially informative thread. You are right, it did become an argument over the definition of ironic. And you were a major contributor to that argument.

A major contributor? Thank you. I could say the same about you at this point.

Why did you have to call him out on his use of the word "ironic"? Couldn't you have just said something like...
"Thanks for the heads up man. Maybe I wont buy this gi if im interested in competetion."

I called him out because it made his post confusing. I'm not pointing out any of your spelling errors because I can still make sense of your post for the most part. But the "ironic" thing threw me when there was no "irony" involved. His statement about "irony" directly led to a misunderstanding of his point. If I wrote, "this competition gi can't be used for competition but Wall Street is based on science fiction." You would be saying, "WTF? What the hell does Wall Street and/or science fiction have to do with competition gi's?" It would obscure the point because everything after the word "competition" is unnecessary. For me, and possibly others, it detracted from the entire post because, as I said earlier, I had to go back and try and figure out what was so ironic.

 

[Bosozoku]

The TS lives and trains in Japan.

He bought a Kagi competition gi to compete in a tournament.

Kagi means "key" in Japanese.

Yet he was not allowed to compete, because of his "key" competition gi.

Therefore the KEY tournament gi got him LOCKED OUT of the tournament.

Does this not qualify as irony? The Key is actually the Lock? The letter was unclear to many and therefore needed another revision or two, he might have taken a mental step that he failed to carefully illustrate, but I think you are wrong to say this doesn't fit the definition or irony.

Anyway pattheflip: did you get your gi sorted? How did the tournament go?

 

[Elliotedge]

If he said something like "let me axe you a question," I'll probably ignore it. But to counter your point I think informing someone of their errors is how we learn. We call it teaching. Shouldn't matter if it's on the internet or in a classroom or on a bus.


Actually it had more than it needed to be informative. That "more" was what led to the confusion. I read the post and was thinking, "wait...kagi means 'key'? So what? Why is that ironic?" At that point he has failed to get his point across because now I'm confused, going back and re-reading the post, and trying to figure out what is so ironic. He's lost me (and perhaps many others who actually understand "irony.")


A major contributor? Thank you. I could say the same about you at this point.

I called him out because it made his post confusing. I'm not pointing out any of your spelling errors because I can still make sense of your post for the most part. But the "ironic" thing threw me when there was no "irony" involved. His statement about "irony" directly led to a misunderstanding of his point. If I wrote, "this competition gi can't be used for competition but Wall Street is based on science fiction." You would be saying, "WTF? What the hell does Wall Street and/or science fiction have to do with competition gi's?" It would obscure the point because everything after the word "competition" is unnecessary. For me, and possibly others, it detracted from the entire post because, as I said earlier, I had to go back and try and figure out what was so ironic.

Whatever man. You don't need to justify to me why you decided to call him out. I think it was counter productive of you to do so, so I spoke up. If you want to get all high and mighty, thinking that you are contributing to the education of Sherdog members by calling their opinions in to question, so be it.

Oh, and by the way, there actually is irony in his OP. His explanation a few posts later actually made sense. Kagi being a Japanese word, does inply a connection to Japan. So there is some irony that they are illegal there.

Seriously though. What did you accomplish by calling his statement into question? And I don't really buy your claim that you were confused about his overall point. It was clear to see what his main point was, who cares about some minute detail (and yes, the irony comment was a minute detail).

Im about done with this now. As I have admittedly now become involved in the type of internet argument I hate.

 

[pattheflip]

next time i'm keeping this in G&E.

bosozoku, basically, my coach is awesome. i've been meaning to post this in the japan thread for a while now, actually.

so my coach helped me pick out a gi at koubudo (big ass martial arts gear store in nagoya) - ended up getting the white Lutador, since the green one wasn't tournament legal either >_< A3 fit me perfectly, and it was the largest size they had in stock. however, we all knew that the A3 might not fit once i washed it (rules state that the gi has to be to the ankles/wrists, and the A3 just barely made it) so i only used it once, lightly, prior to the tournament, and my coach said he'd buy it off of me afterwards if it shrank too much for me to use in a match after that so i could get an A4 and not waste $200 or so on a one-time gi.

the tournament itself...sigh. everyone is saving their shit for the rickson gracie cup in hamamatsu next month. i ended up fighting my teammate in the middleweight division and losing (though it was a good match, lost on points but was a lot of fun), smashing some lightweight blue belt in absolute, and then losing to my teammate AGAIN in another good match in absolute division. if the matches against my teammate hadn't been good, it would have felt like a total waste.

also, my coach managed to get my money for this weekend's grappling tour (no-gi tournament) refunded since there was no one else in my weight class, meaning i'll be able to go to the rickson gracie cup and compete/watch kron gracie.