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Yup, plot wise Fantasy and 40k are two completely separate universes.
Warhammer 40k
- Thread starter whougonnacall
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Ok cool. I thought maybe one was in the past and one in the future.
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Whole buttload of info on the new Kill Team is out. Seems like GW's taking it pretty seriously with a ton of related products. They're doing a starter box, faction starter kits, terrain kits, and all the cards/dice/bits-n-bobs in addition to periodic expansions (like the Rogue Trader stuff we've seen some pictures of). [LINK]
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you sure can if youd like. if you get any of the old stuff, wait tell unification wars comes out
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Just finished book 13 of The Horus Heresy series Nemesis and I think it's a pretty underrated entry from the mixed reviews I've seen. I'd say check it out if you don't mind giving the space marine/astarte driven stories a break.
Amazon blurb
"After the horrors of Isstvan V, Horus has declared outright war against the Imperium - but in the shadows of the Emperor's Palace, powerful figures convene. Their plan? To send a specially selected team of clade assassins to execute the Warmaster, end the struggle for the throne of Terra before it has even fully begun. What they cannot know is that Horus and his dark allies have already embarked upon an equally sinister plan of their own, and the clock is ticking...
Read it because
The Horus Heresy is a war of Space Marine vs Space Marines, but other combatants lurk in the shadows... Here we see the precursors to Warhammer 40,000's Assassinorum temples in action, even as Horus despatches a monstrous assassin of his own."
Amazon blurb
"After the horrors of Isstvan V, Horus has declared outright war against the Imperium - but in the shadows of the Emperor's Palace, powerful figures convene. Their plan? To send a specially selected team of clade assassins to execute the Warmaster, end the struggle for the throne of Terra before it has even fully begun. What they cannot know is that Horus and his dark allies have already embarked upon an equally sinister plan of their own, and the clock is ticking...
Read it because
The Horus Heresy is a war of Space Marine vs Space Marines, but other combatants lurk in the shadows... Here we see the precursors to Warhammer 40,000's Assassinorum temples in action, even as Horus despatches a monstrous assassin of his own."
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the fact no one has made WH40K into a animated, or live action movie or series is sad.
So much Material. if they can turn all the comics into movies and cartoons, they can too with WH40K
So much Material. if they can turn all the comics into movies and cartoons, they can too with WH40K
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I enjoyed this one. Need more
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The Emperor's Text to Speech Device is some good parody though.
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The Emperor = God
PrimARCHs = ARCHangels or Chief Angels
Astartes = lower caste Angels
Horus = Satan , Dragon / Warmaster = Morning Star
Abaddon = Antichrist / The 1st Beast / Son of Horus = Son of Satan
Lorgar = False Prophet, 2nd Beast
Magnus the Red = is the false miracle (sorcery) aspect of the False prophet, 2nd Beast
Both Lorgar and Magnus were judged by the Emperor for their heresies of idolatry and sorcery and He destroyed their cities as punishment like God did to Sodom and Gomorrah but both continued down the same chaotic path as Horus.
Chaos = The unclean spirits that possess Satan / The Dragon, The Beast and the False Prophet
Roboute = Christ
Roboute is now the Morning Star / rules the nations (Imperium) with a rod of iron.
Roboute was mortally wounded (crucified) and revived (resurrected)
The Ultramarines 19th Company Captain is Aethon and their banner has a white horse breathing fire on it.
Aethon is a fire breathing horse in greek mythology
Christ is said to ride a white horse and has a sword that proceeds from his mouth. The fire and sword from the mouth represent the Word of God.
Roboute now literally has his father, The Emperor's sword (Word of God) and is the real word bearer in opposition to Abaddon the son of Horus /Satan (The antichrist, first beast) and Lorgar the false prophet, false word bearer ( 2nd beast).
If you want to know how Warhammer 40k ends I would guess something like this
Is all of this common knowledge?
Thoughts?
PrimARCHs = ARCHangels or Chief Angels
Astartes = lower caste Angels
Horus = Satan , Dragon / Warmaster = Morning Star
Revelation 2
26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28And I will give him the morning star. 29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Isaiah 14
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28And I will give him the morning star. 29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Isaiah 14
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Abaddon = Antichrist / The 1st Beast / Son of Horus = Son of Satan
Revelation 9
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Magnus the Red = is the false miracle (sorcery) aspect of the False prophet, 2nd Beast
Both Lorgar and Magnus were judged by the Emperor for their heresies of idolatry and sorcery and He destroyed their cities as punishment like God did to Sodom and Gomorrah but both continued down the same chaotic path as Horus.
Revelation 13
11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means ofthose miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means ofthose miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Revelation 16
13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Roboute is now the Morning Star / rules the nations (Imperium) with a rod of iron.
Roboute was mortally wounded (crucified) and revived (resurrected)
The Ultramarines 19th Company Captain is Aethon and their banner has a white horse breathing fire on it.
Aethon is a fire breathing horse in greek mythology
Christ is said to ride a white horse and has a sword that proceeds from his mouth. The fire and sword from the mouth represent the Word of God.
Jeremiah 5
14Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
Revelation 19
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
2 Thessalonians 2
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
14Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
Revelation 19
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
2 Thessalonians 2
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Roboute now literally has his father, The Emperor's sword (Word of God) and is the real word bearer in opposition to Abaddon the son of Horus /Satan (The antichrist, first beast) and Lorgar the false prophet, false word bearer ( 2nd beast).
If you want to know how Warhammer 40k ends I would guess something like this
Revelation 19
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Is all of this common knowledge?
Thoughts?
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It's common knowledge that WH40k borrows bits and pieces from pretty much any mythology you can think of with the Judeo-Christian imagery being particularly influential. Many art pieces intentionally borrowing from Renaissance era christian art, such as this famous piece:
I'm sure some of what you've mentioned was 100% intentional. But a lot of these tropes are also pretty universal with the Bible being only one of many sources that uses them. I'd hesitate to apply the Bible too directly, especially the Rowboat=Jesus line. Rowboat didn't make any intentional sacrifice, he was struck by a poisoned blade in combat against Fulgrim more than a century after the Heresy was over.
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Yeah I'm still pretty new to 40k so there are somethings I've yet to grasp.It's common knowledge that WH40k borrows bits and pieces from pretty much any mythology you can think of with the Judeo-Christian imagery being particularly influential. Many art pieces intentionally borrowing from Renaissance era christian art, such as this famous piece:
I'm sure some of what you've mentioned was 100% intentional. But a lot of these tropes are also pretty universal with the Bible being only one of many sources that uses them. I'd hesitate to apply the Bible too directly, especially the Rowboat=Jesus line. Rowboat didn't make any intentional sacrifice, he was struck by a poisoned blade in combat against Fulgrim more than a century after the Heresy was over.
What made me think of Roboute being a Christ figure was that as I was reading Nemesis there is a scene where The Emperor speaks and his dialogue is bolded which I don't recall seeing in other Heresy books so I just assumed this happens when The Emperor speaks in kind of the same way that in some Bibles Jesus's quotes are in red to stand out. Of course this could also just be the choice of the author.
I recently started The First Heretic and when Roboute contacts Lorgar's legion to tell them to land on Monarchia his dialogue while giving these orders is bolded which I thought was strange because I don't recall any Primarch's dialogue being bolded so far.
We then find out that the order to destroy Monarchia came from The Emperor which made me think Roboute's dialogue was bolded because he was speaking for The Emperor ... or possibly The Emperor was speaking through Roboute.
Then I started thinking about The Emperor using Roboute (Robot) as an avatar. The First Heretic is really my introduction to Roboute and he is described as being emotionless, stoic and kind of bland to be honest kind of like an (automaton, robot). He is also the most loyal to his father's vision it would seem.
If Jesus is the word of God made flesh Biblically speaking then He is sort of an avatar for God to interact with people and the way the Emperor is described He is so brilliant that even His on sons the Primarchs can't look directly at Him and the only reason He shows up on Monarchia is because Lorgar didn't believe Malcador and Roboute so He had to make an appearance.
I kinda went off the rails with the theory that Roboute was a vessel (or could at least be used as one) for The Emperor to interact with people without burning their eyes out of their head and to also have a little anonymity in some dealings.
It sounds confusing but no more confusing than Jesus being The Father and The Son.
Too much coffee probably.
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It's pretty interesting that this is in 30k but could easily be repeated in 40k with Abaddon the Son of Horus who has his father's Power claw (Talons) and Roboute the Son of the Emperor who now has his father's flame sword. (Fire and Sword = (s)Word of God.)
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It's pretty interesting that this is in 30k but could easily be repeated in 40k with Abaddon the Son of Horus who has his father's Power claw (Talons) and Roboute the Son of the Emperor who now has his father's flame sword. (Fire and Sword = (s)Word of God.)
Abaddon vs roboute ? this isnt even a match.
We're talking a primarch vs the 1st captain.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Emperor's_Sword_(Weapon)
also, that shit actually can kill demons an not just banish them...
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You are probably right but isnt Abbs the chosen of the chaos gods atm so that has to have some benefits
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40k is a "greatest hits" compilation of sci-fi tropes all turned up to 11. The setting is like if the collapsing Roman empire had super advanced tech that they no longer understood and operated via dogmatic ritual, and the barbarian hordes at the gates are Mad Max orcs and the literal forces of hell.
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I thought a Primarch vs a Chaos powered space marine was a comparable or possibly even more fair match up than The Emperor vs a Chaos powered Primarch.
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Sanguinius broke a Bloodthirster's back over his knee. Primarchs are on another level when it comes to being able to kill shit.
