Warhammer/40k & Fantasy Discussion - Part 6

[Damage]

I've been thinking about this recently, it would be tricky to do without making it too niche geeky. Some of the names, the way the orks talk, some of that shit is way too cheesy to fly. I've never played the game, and to be honist, it's not my idea of fun in the slightest. Love the books though.

My plan would be to start at the HH with the first movie. The lead would be a rememberancer attached to an Imperial Guard unit in support of space marines. You could give lots of background and explanation without feeling like your just passing on info to the audience. It would be a war movie with IG vs generic aliens. The Marines wouldn't turn up until 3/4 of the way through the film, even then they wouldn't speak. They could show up like walking tanks, fuck shit up then disappear.

Second film would be a comic book style film with space marines. Lots of crazy superhuman shit going on. Gavial Loken would be the lead, possibly on Murder. I'd probably go non cannon and have him promoted into the Mornival on that campaign. Flesh out Horus, Marines in General, touch on the warp, couple of creepy things.

Third film is Ullanor. Mainly Marines interacting with other legions, fighting, ground work being layed, but still lots of drama between Primarchs.

Fourth film would be a creepy thriller/horror split between Loken and Horus. It would start on sixty three nineteen then end on Davin with Horus's fall. Erebus, chaos, the whole nine yards. Again, the timeline would be off but fuck it.

Fifth film would be istavan

Sixth would be chaos Vs imperium

Etc etc.
Inbetween 1&2 I'd have an imperial guard tv show. No space marines, men v Alien's with a tiny hint of chaos.
Between 5 & 6 I'd have have a flash forward TV show for the inquisition or assasinorium.
Yeah anyway. Board at work!!!!!

space marine books tend to be like gay sex novels, one makes you think if the writers actually have real sexual fantasies about them considering how they like to describe their welltrained bodies everytime they make an apperance

id like a Eisenhorn movie or Gaunts Ghost one

 

[JBSchroeds]

I haven't played a game of WHF in probably six or seven years now but still have my VC models sitting around. The big turn-off for me was that even though I have over 100 individual models for them it still wasn't enough to play a typical full-size game (2000-2250pts). If the new game is more viable at lower point levels in the 1000-1500 range I might have to check it out. Otherwise I'll continue to pass.

 

[TSO]

I haven't played a game of WHF in probably six or seven years now but still have my VC models sitting around. The big turn-off for me was that even though I have over 100 individual models for them it still wasn't enough to play a typical full-size game (2000-2250pts). If the new game is more viable at lower point levels in the 1000-1500 range I might have to check it out. Otherwise I'll continue to pass.

Even if you only need half the number of minies 100 wont cut it for Vampires. You needed 100-200 zombies and more in reserves in 8th edition.

 

[JBSchroeds]

Even if you only need half the number of minies 100 wont cut it for Vampires. You needed 100-200 zombies and more in reserves in 8th edition.

Which is exactly why I haven't bothered playing.

 

[JBSchroeds]

The first leaked starter set pics have dropped. The quality looks high, but I'm not sure about the new aesthetic. Also, it's two factions I'm not interested in picking up and have only marginal conversion potential for what I do have.

 

[Magooglie]

I'm a sucker for the starter sets.

 

[JBSchroeds]

I'm trying to keep from jumping to conclusions, but what the rumor-mill is putting out right now sounds really bad.

 

[TrainInVain]

I'm trying to keep from jumping to conclusions, but what the rumor-mill is putting out right now sounds really bad.

What rumors?

 

[Halge]

What rumors?

Medieval Space Marines?
Judging from those leaked images of the new models the new WHFB artstyle is going to be virtually indistinguishable from 40k.
I think it is great that GM is putting some focus on WHFB again, but I have to be honest: While I used to love 40k models, and I still think it has the better fluff, I am bored to death with the artstyle nowadays.
Booh all that round-base, death-metal, turn-every-dial-to-11, cater-to-the-visual-tastes-of-twelve-year-olds jazz. If this is the way GM is going to go, I doubt I'll be buying many models from their catalogue in the future. The last couple of years have already seen mostly uninspired releases. Guess it's back to scouring E-bay and AliExpress for vintage recasts...

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG-20150626-WA0021.jpg
http://www.tabletopminis.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/leak21-1021x580.jpg

 

[JBSchroeds]

What rumors?

The rules are only four pages. Each unit is supposed to get it's own "war scroll" with it's rules, but even if you assume that all the USRs/weapons/magic are in the unit info that four pages is going to be very simplistic.

But the big kicker is that, as of now, it appears there is no balancing mechanic. So no point values, just plunk down whatever you feel like and go at it, fairness be damned. This essentially makes the "game" aspect of the game pointless. Maybe there is something that we haven't seen yet and will be revealed once it's all released this weekend, but as of now it looks like WH as a game might be dead.

 

[TrainInVain]

Medieval Space Marines?
Judging from those leaked images of the new models the new WHFB artstyle is going to be virtually indistinguishable from 40k.
I think it is great that GM is putting some focus on WHFB again, but I have to be honest: While I used to love 40k models, and I still think it has the better fluff, I am bored to death with the artstyle nowadays.
Booh all that round-base, death-metal, turn-every-dial-to-11, cater-to-the-visual-tastes-of-twelve-year-olds jazz. If this is the way GM is going to go, I doubt I'll be buying many models from their catalogue in the future. The last couple of years have already seen mostly uninspired releases. Guess it's back to scouring E-bay and AliExpress for vintage recasts...

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG-20150626-WA0021.jpg
http://www.tabletopminis.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/leak21-1021x580.jpg

They do look cool but I do see what you mean, straight out 40k. I don't play WH or 40k for that matter, but I really like what they've done with their plastics that last 5 years or so, other than price. Maybe they need a new art director to shake things up.

The rules are only four pages. Each unit is supposed to get it's own "war scroll" with it's rules, but even if you assume that all the USRs/weapons/magic are in the unit info that four pages is going to be very simplistic.

But the big kicker is that, as of now, it appears there is no balancing mechanic. So no point values, just plunk down whatever you feel like and go at it, fairness be damned. This essentially makes the "game" aspect of the game pointless. Maybe there is something that we haven't seen yet and will be revealed once it's all released this weekend, but as of now it looks like WH as a game might be dead.

Balancing always seem to be the biggest issue I've heard from players with the typical new overpowered unit/codex that then gets nerfed when the new overpowered unit/codex comes out. Make sure everyone goes hog-wild for the flavor of the month.
I've found a good group of historical miniature gamers that steer clear of point based games and really tries to focus on balancing out the forces. Maybe if you like the rules but just play among friends and stay away from tournaments they'll be ok.

 

[TSO]

The rules are out, age of sigmar is just a really crappy version of 40k.

 

[JBSchroeds]

All the rules PDF's are now available [LINK]. The biggest hole is the lack of balancing mechanic. No points, plunk down whatever you feel like. Warscrolls aren't balanced between eachother and neither is wound total so that's out. Really, it needs points to be playable as a fair game.

Beyond that problem (which is admittedly quite large), it seems like there's a good deal of variation in the warscrolls so that the 4 pages of core rules isn't as big of an issue. It reads like it should play smoothly enough, but if you enjoyed moving blocks of infantry that's completely gone. I like how most of the big stuff have stats that change as they take damage. On thing I'm not sure on is how units never outright run away: you can have a ten model unity take six damage and fail it's bravery by three and you'll be left with a single dude standing around next turn.

As much as I'm not sure about this, it does have me interested enough that I might run a couple small games to try it out.

 

[TrainInVain]

All the rules PDF's are now available [LINK]. The biggest hole is the lack of balancing mechanic. No points, plunk down whatever you feel like. Warscrolls aren't balanced between eachother and neither is wound total so that's out. Really, it needs points to be playable as a fair game.

Beyond that problem (which is admittedly quite large), it seems like there's a good deal of variation in the warscrolls so that the 4 pages of core rules isn't as big of an issue. It reads like it should play smoothly enough, but if you enjoyed moving blocks of infantry that's completely gone. I like how most of the big stuff have stats that change as they take damage. On thing I'm not sure on is how units never outright run away: you can have a ten model unity take six damage and fail it's bravery by three and you'll be left with a single dude standing around next turn.

As much as I'm not sure about this, it does have me interested enough that I might run a couple small games to try it out.

I'm not sure how it will play out in the long run but it looks like the Sudden Death Victory on page 2 is the balancing mechanic. Though you still have to have a somewhat reasonable balance of units for it to be possible I would guess.

Sometimes a player may attempt to achieve a sudden death victory. If one army has a third more models than the other, the outnumbered player can choose one objective from the sudden death table after generals are nominated. A major victory can be claimed immediately when the objective is achieved by the outnumbered player.

Was nice that the rules are free. With the current popularity of fantasy skirmish (SAGA just came out with a fantasy set and so did Osprey among others) GW expects that moving blocks of units is a thing of the past. Seems to just be the way of things even in historical miniature gaming.

 

[JBSchroeds]

I'm not sure how it will play out in the long run but it looks like the Sudden Death Victory on page 2 is the balancing mechanic. Though you still have to have a somewhat reasonable balance of units for it to be possible I would guess.

That seems to be their intent, but it won't work very well in practice because it keys off model count and individual models are not balanced with one another. I could take three Bloodthirsters, say "Oh no, I'm outnumbered! I choose the Assassinate Sudden Death condition," and then gang rape a single enemy model for the win. It's a poorly conceived mechanic.

 

[TrainInVain]

That seems to be their intent, but it won't work very well in practice because it keys off model count and individual models are not balanced with one another. I could take three Bloodthirsters, say "Oh no, I'm outnumbered! I choose the Assassinate Sudden Death condition," and then gang rape a single enemy model for the win. It's a poorly conceived mechanic.

I agree it may not have been thought out or play tested as well as it should. In your example the enemy player does get to pick which unit you have to assassinate though. I'm not familiar enough with the units but if that means you can hide your hero, priest, wizard, or monster in the back, the 3 bloodthirsters might not get to them so easily.

Like I said I'm not currently playing so I don't know how it will pan out. I did think it was cool that GW made the rules free to DL, something would have never expected from them. But these new rules and the popularity of Fantasy skirmish made me want to get some historical knights that I could use for historical or Fantasy skirmish. And just add in a few of the fantasy hero figures.