War Room OT Discussion v2

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HomerThompson said:
I don't put him above Rockhold. I think Anderson could beat him too, frankly. I think Jacare and Romero are both done. Too old, and too hard to juice now with USADA. He deserves his spot, and his interim title though, for sure. I'm also not convinced he would have beat Bisping like everyone else seems to be.
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Yeah Rockhold I put above the contenders w/Whit. I meant the guys Whit beat.
 
JudoThrowFiasco said:
Overrating him!?

He's completely outclassed Yoel, Brunson and Souza in his last three. That's a hell of a streak (add in Natal, Hall and Tavares) and there's no way Whittaker can be seen as overrated
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I firmly disagree. Romero and Jacare are done, imo. Whitaker is very good, but if they fight, GSP will beat him. Whitaker is a guy who could get a couple title defenses, tops. He's not an all time talent. Wonder kicked his fucking head off not long ago. He's a lot faster than everybody at 185, but he won't be faster than GSP.
 
JudoThrowFiasco said:
Overrating him!?

He's completely outclassed Yoel, Brunson and Souza in his last three. That's a hell of a streak (add in Natal, Hall and Tavares) and there's no way Whittaker can be seen as overrated
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The Brunson fight is worthless as a measure of anything. Brunson fought impossibly stupidly in that fight.
 
Fawlty said:
I don't rate the interim belt, but you could be right that I'm not factoring Yoel/Jacare's ages enough. I think he's mentally tougher than Bisping just based on Bisping folding badly last night. He was ridiculously tentative despite good success w/his aggression & TDD.
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GSP hit all 3 TD's he tried, and he was notably faster than Bisping. That's why he was tentative. GSP also cracked his ass in the first round a couple times. Hurt him with the Superman jab, then hurt him at the end with a punch and the spinning wheel kick(which was about 1 inch too high).
 
JudoThrowFiasco said:
I agree with the premise that underdog winners tend to go overrated (not by much) but Rose doesn't fit into that category -- JP has really helped her striking and she looked way more crisp and accurate than JJ, albeit it was a small sample size.

I think she is legit and people got caught up more on the JJ hype.

Rose also has a decent ground game for the division
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So you're saying in other words that this is a completely different level of Rose than we've seen coming up, that she is making the leap that young fighters sometimes make a la Max Holloway?
 
Fawlty said:
Yeah Rockhold I put above the contenders w/Whit. I meant the guys Whit beat.
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Like I said, Whit deserves his spot, but he's overrated to me right now. I see a lot of people saying he's the legit best MW on the planet, and I just don't see it.
 
HomerThompson said:
The Brunson fight is worthless as a measure of anything. Brunson fought impossibly stupidly in that fight.
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Nope, he beat him -- not his fault that Brunson fought that way, he took what he gave him and finished. No reason to think that he wouldn't beat any version of the guy.

If Bobby Knuckles is overrated than so is the vast majority of every champion or contender.

He's for real and at 26, is only going to get better.
 
JudoThrowFiasco said:
Nope, he beat him -- not his fault that Brunson fought that way, he took what he gave him and finished. No reason to think that he wouldn't beat any version of the guy.

If Bobby Knuckles is overrated than so is the vast majority of every champion or contender.

He's for real and at 26, is only going to get better.
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You said he outclassed him. Did Leben "outclass" Wandy when they fought? Did Bisping "outclass" Rockhold when they fought? Did Matt Serra "outclass" GSP when he beat him?

Of course not. Winning isn't the same as dominating or outclassing.

As for the sentence I bolded:

{<jordan}
 
Ruprecht said:
Whittaker's 26, that's why he's been noticeably improving with every appearance.
It's not like he'd lose another fight to Court McGee...
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I know, and like I said, I think he deserves his spot, and I think he is very good. I just don't think he's a world ender, and I favor GSP to win that fight. You don't see people saying Rose is unbeatable, like people say about Whitaker.
 
Fawlty said:
So you're saying in other words that this is a completely different level of Rose than we've seen coming up, that she is making the leap that young fighters sometimes make a la Max Holloway?
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Exactly -- it wasn't a wild looping prayer punch that won her the fight. She kept great range, crisp counters and combos, made JJ wiff a lot -- hit her multiple times and finished her with solid shots.

Think she's at an awesome camp and really is coming into her own.
 
HomerThompson said:
I know, and like I said, I think he deserves his spot, and I think he is very good. I just don't think he's a world ender, and I favor GSP to win that fight. You don't see people saying Rose is unbeatable, like people say about Whitaker.
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I don't think he's unbeatable, and I think GSP is a bigger challenge stylistically than Bisping. I also don't think Whittaker can count on GSP gassing or looking as slow as he did so early in this fight.
Whittaker is faster, harder hitting and more accurate than Bisping though, and I think his takedown defence is at least as good if not better. He also has more striking weapons.
GSP took a few strikes from Bisping tonight that he can't afford to take from Whittaker.
 
Ruprecht said:
Ramos was a big ask for Zahabi's second UFC fight. I had him coming back and taking the second. He was doing well in the third until he was stopped as well.
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Agree and if that over hand right had hit Ramos' head intead of shoulder it could have been a very different fight. One little angle everything changes.
 
HomerThompson said:
You said he outclassed him. Did Leben "outclass" Wandy when they fought? Did Bisping "outclass" Rockhold when they fought? Did Matt Serra "outclass" GSP when he beat him?

Of course not. Winning isn't the same as dominating or outclassing.

As for the sentence I bolded:

{<jordan}
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Yep, he outclassed Brunson, Yoel and souza anyway you cut it -- dominant wins against top 5 guys.

And yeah, if a number 1 cotender who has 3 wins in a row over top 5 guys is overrated than so is the majority of every other contender and champion
 
HomerThompson said:
Also, I bet he would lose to Thompson again if they fought.
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Thompson is a tough matchup for most fighters that rely on striking, the fight with Masvidal underlined that, and Whittaker's biggest improvements have been in fight IQ and TDD, which wouldn't help so much with Thompson. Whittaker has improved his head movement, foot work and accuracy though, and if he managed to lay hands on him, he's a harder hitter.
 
I think Whittaker is going to beat GSP. I was not impressed with his performance yesterday. I actually thought he looked bad, Bisping looked bad as well and fought very hesitant the first round.
And that's not me shitting on those guys I think GSP is the GOAT and Bisping's story grinding away 10+ years never giving up to finally win the title is excellent.

But Whittaker is a young and hungry guy that is all in as soon as the fight starts.
It's just that GSP is 36 years already and it showed last night. And father time is still undefeated.
Bisping as well and Bisping has been in a lot of wars.

It's a young man's game.
 
HomerThompson said:
GSP hit all 3 TD's he tried, and he was notably faster than Bisping. That's why he was tentative. GSP also cracked his ass in the first round a couple times. Hurt him with the Superman jab, then hurt him at the end with a punch and the spinning wheel kick(which was about 1 inch too high).
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Yeah, I think that Bisping was expecting wrestling and a jab, just like everyone else.

He wasn't expecting to get beat to the punch with cracking shots, so that baffled him for a bit. And when he adjusted, GSP started taking him down. One of my favorite parts of the fight was just after (the first?) takedown, Bisping gave a little grin/eyeroll like "knew this shit was coming."
 
Ruprecht said:
I don't think he's unbeatable, and I think GSP is a bigger challenge stylistically than Bisping. I also don't think Whittaker can count on GSP gassing or looking as slow as he did so early in this fight.
Whittaker is faster, harder hitting and more accurate than Bisping though, and I think his takedown defence is at least as good if not better. He also has more striking weapons.
GSP took a few strikes from Bisping tonight that he can't afford to take from Whittaker.
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What makes you say he hits harder than Bisping? I think he is faster than Bisping, but that's it. I don't think he has more weapons, and I also don't think he is more accurate.

He has been feasting on his speed advantage at MW. Mostly against old men. GSP will be as fast, with much better striking and experience than Whitaker. Whitaker hits hard enough to KO GSP, but only if he catches him perfect. There's no way he hits harder than Pre-USADA Bigg Rigg.
 
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