War Room OT Discussion v2

[Lead]

Is anything more fun than Sherdog after a big event? Especially when your guy wins.

Haven't been in the heavies in awhile but I always enjoyed the crash nights (Kimbo and Fedor losing). I never really was a hardcore fanboy of any fighter to the point I'd get mad at a loss though so I didn't really get into the "I told you so" beefs. Only time I can remember getting a bit pissed was Leben not answering the bell and people calling him a bitch for it.

 

[Lead]

@Quipling , did the alcohol wear off? See if my name looks different

 

[Quipling]

@Quipling , did the alcohol wear off? See if my name looks different

I dont see color.

 

[JonesBones]

Haven't been in the heavies in awhile but I always enjoyed the crash nights (Kimbo and Fedor losing). I never really was a hardcore fanboy of any fighter to the point I'd get mad at a loss though so I didn't really get into the "I told you so" beefs. Only time I can remember getting a bit pissed was Leben not answering the bell and people calling him a bitch for it.

I was in that thread when Fedor lost. lol. Man. I waited so long for Fedor to lose. And Fedor is a good guy. lol. His fans made me hate him so much. It is like what Gandhi said about Christians. He likes Christ. He doesn't like Christians. Christians are so unlike Christ. Fedor fans are so unlike him. And Rousey. Somebody said that when Hitler died it was like a spell being broken. Same thing when Ronda lost. A spell was broken.

And back in the days when I had to follow a fight by sherdog pbp. Which was always slow. Serra beating GSP. I thought the whole site was trolling. lol. I didn't believe it until I read it in the play by play.

 

[JonesBones]

Now people are saying Cormier sucks. A 40 year old midget. He is the 2nd best LHW ever imo. He may not have the resume because he wasn't around so long but he is the 2nd best fighter in lhw history.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

DC's pacing and defense were also much better than the first fight. Jones adjusted well in the third, though. He was landing his usual stuff while people try to close the gap, but then effectively resetting before DC got the payoff (that is, he was taking some light punishment to get his range but then not actually getting to do work at the range). I was thinking about what kind of adjustments DC would make, if any, and then boom. Jones is such a great fighter. I hope he gets a chance to carve up Lesnar. One of the most annoying things to be in my MMA fandom was the way the UFC ditched the HW division for a while to avoid bidding wars and tried to pretend that the guys the had were the best, and a lot of casual fans bought it. Brock was ridiculously overrated in that period.

I was on the sidelines completely with betting, as I liked all the odds. Did you lay anything down?

Definitely respect how composed Jones remains in his fights. Mentioned before the fight earlier in this thread that Jones wouldn't fall for the bitterness leading up to the fight -- but would remain calm. Like you said, he reset well after getting clipped a few times by DC and didn't get suckered into a dirty fight. I don't think any fighter is going to get under Jones skin to a point where he starts to fight uncomposed.

Yeah, laid money on all 5 main card fights and the Ortega fight with the hopes of a nice Parlay. But, Volkin decided to go into hunter -kill mode last night (realistically it was my fault for stupidly sleeping on him)

 

[Lead]

I dont see color.

Well now I look like an asshole

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Now people are saying Cormier sucks. A 40 year old midget. He is the 2nd best LHW ever imo. He may not have the resume because he wasn't around so long but he is the 2nd best fighter in lhw history.

Anyone who shits on DC for anything other than outside of the cage persona is shit tier mma fan. DC's accumulated win list is among the best in history. But I agree that you can't call him the 2nd best lhw of all time based on record alone.

I would've love to see him fight a prime Chuck. Liddell's tdd and power vs DC's chin and wrestling

 

[Lead]

I was in that thread when Fedor lost. lol. Man. I waited so long for Fedor to lose. And Fedor is a good guy. lol. His fans made me hate him so much. It is like what Gandhi said about Christians. He likes Christ. He doesn't like Christians. Christians are so unlike Christ. Fedor fans are so unlike him. And Rousey. Somebody said that when Hitler died it was like a spell being broken. Same thing when Ronda lost. A spell was broken.

And back in the days when I had to follow a fight by sherdog pbp. Which was always slow. Serra beating GSP. I thought the whole site was trolling. lol. I didn't believe it until I read it in the play by play.

That's part of the reason I don't like the place. People end up bashing the sport and almost every fighter in order to try to one up another poster they don't like or they think it being unreasonable. It happens in the WR too but in the heavies it's unbearable. You get guys saying top 5 guys are cans but then ask who are the current fighters above them and they talk around the question cause the reality is they just want to shit on fighters all day.

I get that some fanboys make it tempting to dislike the fighter but that shouldn't be the right thinking. Only time I played into that a bit was the BJ fans because BJ enabled his fanbase to do it often. I never played down his skills or accomplishments though. Just couldn't stand the threads his posters were making continually trying to claim him to be undefeated. Plats or any other subforum OT for the fights is a better place to discuss

 

[JonesBones]

Anyone who shits on DC for anything other than outside of the cage persona is shit tier mma fan. DC's accumulated win list is among the best in history. But I agree that you can't call him the 2nd best lhw of all time based on record alone.

I would've love to see him fight a prime Chuck. Liddell's tdd and power vs DC's chin and wrestling

DC vs Chuck would also be interesting because Chuck did not just have good takedown defense. He was good at getting up as soon as he is taken down. So is Cormier. Jones can't hold him on the ground. I doubt anyone could.

I like that Jones leg trip too. He did it when Cormier was rocked and falling around. lol. It made him even more off balance and out of control. He used it to take down Cormier in the first fight too. Just kicking out his leg. Jones has great killer instinct. He goes after it when you are hurt. I was surprised how beat up DC was. He was beaten senseless. I did not expect that. I expected him to kind of pop back up after the finish.

 

[JonesBones]

And listen to Mir's story about Jones in this thread. I love it. Mir was dumbfounded. He has never seen an attitude like that.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/frank-mir-tells-an-interesting-jon-jones-story.3584799/

Cliffs:
He says he trained with Jones a couple of days before the first DC fight, and they were working on some guillotine chokes
Frank was showing him the guillotine he used on Kongo, so right off the bat Jones does it and he has a great guillotine and Mir tells him that he really thinks he can tap DC if he catches him with it
Jones says No I don't want to use it in the fight. Mir says WHAT? Jones says I just want to threaten him with it but I don't want to tap him. Mir says Why? if you have a chance to finish the fight why not finish it?
Jones says I have to break him, we're gonna fight eachother again and if I catch him with a knee or I submit him he will say I just caught him and he will go home and have something to focus on but if I beat him at what he does best and break him I will forever own him. In the next fight I will finish him.

 

[Lead]

Some random sherdog questions

Where did the bench teh 275 come from and why was it that weight?

What gif of the rock clapping looks like it's at a UFC event. What fight was he applauding?

 

[senri]

Some random sherdog questions

Where did the bench teh 275 come from and why was it that weight?

What gif of the rock clapping looks like it's at a UFC event. What fight was he applauding?

It's an arbitrary number that most men find commendable for the upper body strength. I do find military pressing 225lbs more impressive. The muscle structure necessary for such a lift is impressive to study and massage. You can feel exquisitely designed striations as the moist hands glide across the soft but unyielding body, the tightness of the skin and durability of ones physicality is profound. You will salivate at such prowess Mr Lead.

There are websites that will aid you in the seeking of such origins of the gif you are looking for. It is rather archaic.

 

[kpt018]

Such a great night of fights. Aside from Cyborg tenatievly putting a soccer mom to sleep, and the human ambien that was Woodley/Maia.

Jones was spectacular. Did not know what to expect at all from Jon after the layoff, but damn. Took the first round and got a takedown, though Cormier came back great at the end of the round. Second round was much closer, but Cormier grabbed it, but Jones worked the body the whole time. By the 3rd round, Cormier was done. Those body shots worked wonders. Had Cormier getting nervous about them, and then BOOM. Just done.

Also, I have no sympathy for Cormier. Acting like that after a fight is just not a good look, no matter how emotional you get. And I am talking about him refusing to stand for the anouncement and then arguing and shit with Dana in the background. And Rogan needs to be slapped. Stop interviewing the loser, especially if the dude has been knocked out and then broke down.

I like the post but I do have sympathy for Cormier. He was just brutally KO'd and didn't even remember what happened. Rogan should never interview guys who just took a bad beating.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Haven't been in the heavies in awhile but I always enjoyed the crash nights (Kimbo and Fedor losing). I never really was a hardcore fanboy of any fighter to the point I'd get mad at a loss though so I didn't really get into the "I told you so" beefs. Only time I can remember getting a bit pissed was Leben not answering the bell and people calling him a bitch for it.

I remember the place used to crash after every UFC event. I was at Fedor/Werdum so I didn't get to check what was going on with Sherdog at the time, but I think given that SF events generally had less traffic, I always suspected it was a myth that there was anything particularly unusual about the volume.

I got into some of that "I told you so" related to the issue I mentioned earlier. The UFC decided not to compete for the top HW talent at some point and tried to use propaganda to cover the gap, leading to ignorant fans insisting that Fedor and Overeem were overrated and that AA, Barnett, Hunt, and Werdum were washed up (or couldn't cut it in the UFC), among other things, while obvious mediocrities like Brock, Mir, and Carwin were really the best HWs in the world. It was satisfying to be proven right on all that.

Anyone who shits on DC for anything other than outside of the cage persona is shit tier mma fan. DC's accumulated win list is among the best in history. But I agree that you can't call him the 2nd best lhw of all time based on record alone.

I would've love to see him fight a prime Chuck. Liddell's tdd and power vs DC's chin and wrestling

Agreed. DC is one of the best fighters we've ever seen in MMA (but Jones is far and away *the* best). Frankly, I don't think a prime Chuck would be competitive. I'd have DC at like -450, and I'd think the most likely outcome would be a shutout decision.

 

[Lead]

I remember the place used to crash after every UFC event. I was at Fedor/Werdum so I didn't get to check what was going on with Sherdog at the time, but I think given that SF events generally had less traffic, I always suspected it was a myth that there was anything particularly unusual about the volume.

I got into some of that "I told you so" related to the issue I mentioned earlier. The UFC decided not to compete for the top HW talent at some point and tried to use propaganda to cover the gap, leading to ignorant fans insisting that Fedor and Overeem were overrated and that AA, Barnett, Hunt, and Werdum were washed up (or couldn't cut it in the UFC), among other things, while obvious mediocrities like Brock, Mir, and Carwin were really the best HWs in the world. It was satisfying to be proven right on all that.



Agreed. DC is one of the best fighters we've ever seen in MMA (but Jones is far and away *the* best). Frankly, I don't think a prime Chuck would be competitive. I'd have DC at like -450, and I'd think the most likely outcome would be a shutout decision.

Biggest crashes were Fedor-Werdum and Kimbo being KO'd, both non UFC events. It could beaten but I believe as early this last year, that Kimbo card remains the highest rated basic cable MMA event which is pretty odd considering they've had a HW title fight on Fox among other good cards far better than that garbage.

I think the problem with Brock is the fans overrated him and the haters underrated him. Made it very hard to look at his skill objectively. I called every fight he had correct aside from his last two (Overeem and Hunt). With that said, the division was awful at that point. Herring and Kongo were close to being contenders and I would think we're in the top 5 of the UFC division at one point. The talent was just too split up at the time but they stilled made a killing during that era with Brock. Strikeforce had more depth and talent in general but they still tanked the way they handled it.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think the problem with Brock is the fans overrated him and the haters underrated him. Made it very hard to look at his skill objectively. I called every fight he had correct aside from his last two (Overeem and Hunt). With that said, the division was awful at that point. Herring and Kongo were close to being contenders and I would think we're in the top 5 of the UFC division at one point. The talent was just too split up at the time but they stilled made a killing during that era with Brock. Strikeforce had more depth and talent in general but they still tanked the way they handled it.

But the HW division as a whole was better than it was later when pretty much the same guys were on top but past their primes. Herring and Kongo were never actually among the 10 best HWs, and guys like Mir and Carwin were fringe contenders at best. It was just that the UFC didn't have many of the best HWs so people bought that the guys they did have were among the best. Brock was one guy who looked like maybe he could hang with the elite of the division, but he was unproven and then he looked awful against Carwin (possibly the worst title fight ever in terms of how skilled the participants looked, though it was pretty dramatic).

 

[Undying Poster]

I was in that thread when Fedor lost. lol. Man. I waited so long for Fedor to lose. And Fedor is a good guy. lol. His fans made me hate him so much.

The Contenders was my primary forum for many years, I can't tell you how much I agree. Even after his losses he still seemed invincible in his prime to his fans and I could never get it through their heads that Bigfoot could have won against 2005 Fedor since Fedor's only way out of the mount is to buck, which wouldn't work well on a 265lb man (280 lb in PRIDE HW, tbh) or how Dan could have KO'ed him in his prime too because he simply got caught in a scramble.

I told this to some Fedor fans probably a few months ago and they are more accepting of it now. He's still the greatest HW and one of the P4P best but he isn't Superman.

What's interesting though is being in the War Room now and seeing how the anti-American bias of many Fedor fans translated directly into their politics. I assumed it was genuinely because they don't like the UFC or Dana White. The insane Fedor fans who were anti-American, believed whatever Fedor's side (Russians) said, and were into conspiracy theories remained the same in the WR.

 

[Undying Poster]

I think the problem with Brock is the fans overrated him and the haters underrated him. Made it very hard to look at his skill objectively.

To underrate Lesnar is to completely ignore his record... I think his record accurately reflects his potential as a fighter. Better than Mir, Carwin, Herring, but below Cain and Overeem. He would probably beat Kongo, Brett Rogers, etc. but lose to Fedor and Werdum.

He's a B-level HW, IMO.

Also, it's not surprising that Kimbo had the highest ratings, he was bigger than MMA in the way Conor, Brock, and Rousey were. The UFC signed him for a reason despite him being an unskilled fighter. That TUF season was the highest rated one and the entire hook for the show after Kimbo lost was constant teasing of injuries so that Kimbo can step in as a replacement and get a 2nd chance.

 

[JonesBones]

The Contenders was my primary forum for many years, I can't tell you how much I agree. Even after his losses he still seemed invincible in his prime to his fans and I could never get it through their heads that Bigfoot could have won against 2005 Fedor since Fedor's only way out of the mount is to buck, which wouldn't work well on a 265lb man (280 lb in PRIDE HW, tbh) or how Dan could have KO'ed him in his prime too because he simply got caught in a scramble.

I told this to some Fedor fans probably a few months ago and they are more accepting of it now. He's still the greatest HW and one of the P4P best but he isn't Superman.

What's interesting though is being in the War Room now and seeing how the anti-American bias of many Fedor fans translated directly into their politics. I assumed it was genuinely because they don't like the UFC or Dana White. The insane Fedor fans who were anti-American, believed whatever Fedor's side (Russians) said, and were into conspiracy theories remained the same in the WR.

They are truly fundamentalists. Anytime a GOAT candidate has a fight, Fedor fans are out the next day shitting on them. Cormier. Anderson. GSP. Jones. Cain. Anyone. So insecure.