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War Room Lounge v96: On behalf of my country, I'd just like to apologize for Hawaiian Pizza. Again.

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Jack V Savage said:
Isn't it possible that the reason that people are talking about how hateful and obnoxious Bernie superfans are isn't that there's some kind of evil conspiracy against Bernie but just that a lot of Bernie superfans really are hateful and obnoxious?
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Obnoxious 100%.

The hateful I don't see completely unless you mean they rail against everyone that doesn't drink his urine with breakfast then yes.
 
Jack V Savage said:
Isn't it possible that the reason that people are talking about how hateful and obnoxious Bernie superfans are isn't that there's some kind of evil conspiracy against Bernie but just that a lot of Bernie superfans really are hateful and obnoxious?
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Anything is possible, but the timing of the resurrection of the “berniebros” and misogyny attacks is convenient to say the least. Weird how when all else fails those who feign to be anti-identity politics lean in to them the most.
 
Anung Un Rama said:
Anything is possible, but the timing of the resurrection of the “berniebros” and misogyny attacks is convenient to say the least. Weird how when all else fails those who feign to be anti-identity politics lean in to them the most.
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The timing of the comments on the obnoxiousness of his superfans seems perfectly aligned with their increased visibility (possibly related to Bernie's position in the race looking a little better).
 
Jack V Savage said:
The timing of the comments on the obnoxiousness of his superfans seems perfectly aligned with their increased visibility (possibly related to Bernie's position in the race looking a little better).
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Bernie’s position has been fairly consistent the entire race.
 
Jack V Savage said:
https://www.thelines.com/bernie-sanders-election-odds-trump/
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436-D4-EF6-96-B7-46-F8-A668-EBB61-B19081-F.jpg
 
Anung Un Rama said:
Anything is possible, but the timing of the resurrection of the “berniebros” and misogyny attacks is convenient to say the least. Weird how when all else fails those who feign to be anti-identity politics lean in to them the most.
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He's one of the top candidates and the primaries are around the corner so its only natural that he'd get some criticism.

Still, the whole "Berniebro" thing and the attempts to paint him as a sexist appear to me as really cynical bad faith criticisms made out of desperation. Sanders isn't perfect but these specific critiques are really low energy and thankfully Warren's attempt to use them seems to have backfired on her.
 
Fawlty said:
Hard to explain. I just don't "get" it in the same way some people don't "get" something like division. It's a struggle to find the right piece of language to do what I want to do. I like human language but I still feel alien when working with logical language. It's also a struggle to keep things that are "on" and "off" straight in my head. I don't visualize this very well. More than anything it's just foreign to me and I can't get immersed, I get stupid very quickly and can't remember what I'm doing.
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Yeah, I get that. I'm more of a visual and verbal thinker as well. I worked on a project with a guy who was just a pure logical thinker and it was pretty fun to watch him work. I started to apply how he does things and it just makes things much faster. I find that if I can't figure something out in one go I get frustrated. But computers are fucking stupid, the answer could be anything, you just have to try it out and see. I'm learning R at the moment, and that's pretty fun. Plus, I did mushrooms recently so that's having a pretty big effect on what I find fun. At the moment it's actually fairly meditative.
 
Zankou said:
Thanks for the post ... decent article, although it embeds specific leftist assumptions about the nature of political conflict, I.e. that it has some objectively desirable resolution.

Generally speaking, I would disagree with you though on the alignment ... certainly leftist circles in American politics tend to be dominated by technocratic forms of debate, but the actual demographics of the Democratic Party nowadays tend to express fairly violent and fractured lines of conflict among a constellation of interest groups. There was a good article I recently read on the growing division between the parties, and how Balkanization faction politics have come to dominate the Dems, just as populism dominates the GOP. Can’t recall the cite tho.

You see this playing out in the Democratic primaries, where the debate terms are ostensibly about rational policy disagreements, but the primaries actually are decided primarily by signaling perceived interest group alignments. Cf the bitter battle yesterday over attempting to indict Sanders of misogyny.

I do like that article’s Marxist-type characterization of people holding up a bunch of charts and graphs and declaring that they show why their current social position is truly meritorious and why the yachts are sadly necessary. It’s a pretty direct way of addressing the tendency to declare existing social power relationships to be mandated by objective reason, while being uncritical about the role of irrational class and institutional power in advancing that argument. This often manifests by asserting a series of minute technical arguments, while ignoring their larger political effects and context as either being irrelevant, unpredictable, or immoral to take into account.

Generally speaking, my view is that the essence of political disagreement is almost always driven by conflict rather than mistake. It’s precisely that which makes it identifiable as political conflict in the first place, as a distinct phenomenon relative to the generic forms of human technocracy that attempt to resolve problems by agreed metrics.
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All of this is well stated and to an extent, true enough (good to see a solid Zank post in the warroom as well).

But in terms of contrast, you have an instance of a refusal to shake hands over an identity driven allegation. On the other you have the Trumpian domination of the primaries as merely the culmination of very different process.
 
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