War Room Lounge V43: STEM is Overrated

[Lead]

It's like we're all lost in the woods and we find some water and kill some rabbits to eat, and the Berniebots are like, "I want Pepsi and bacon" and then shit in the water supply and on the rabbits. Then they accuse you of hiding the Pepsi and bacon.

This is such a weird analogy but it made me laugh pretty hard. I'm going to make an obscure reference to this one day.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

The thing is that it's rare for anyone to be 100% satisfied with any candidate. So it comes off as an entitled attitude. "I'm going to burn the whole place to the ground if I don't get my way" while everyone else is pushing forward as best they can.

It's like we're all lost in the woods and we find some water and kill some rabbits to eat, and the Berniebots are like, "I want Pepsi and bacon" and then shit in the water supply and on the rabbits.

I'm specifically saying that if the Dems fuck Sanders again then they will lose the Sanders supporters.
Thats not spoiled, thats how it works. You want to fuck with democracy, then get fucked and go obsolete.

That's just objectively wrong by a huge margin. You think Biden would nominate someone like Gorsuch or Kavanaugh to the SCOTUS? You think he would have signed off on a budget-busting giveaway to heirs and big corporations? Zero chance. And that's not even getting into the unfathomably bad job Trump is doing as head of state, the various other judicial seats he's filling, environmental deregulation, hawkish foreign policy, etc. I think if you pay close attention to policy, you'll see huge, huge differences.

Biden will do whatever he's paid to do. I don't think he'd pick an RBG and otherwise he'd do whatever he was paid to do. He's been pretty clear that he doesn't give a shit about people. His votes for war, incarceration, banks > people, etc are self-evident. Again, not a huge difference, just a slower pay off. Just like incrementalism; 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

I don't think there's any basis for saying that he was undercut, and I don't think there's any reason to expect him to be this time. But I get the sense that a lot of his supporters are ruling out beforehand any possibility that he can legitimately lose again. Just yesterday, @Gutter Chris was suggesting that the only reason Biden appears to be leading in the polls and is being covered as the frontrunner is some kind of CNN conspiracy. It's madness, and if CTism spreads to the left, what happens? Seems like encroaching barbarism to me. We have this modern, high-tech society with a pretty solid economy, but then it's being governed by dinosaurs who don't know about any of it and voters whose beliefs are in line with thinking that evil spirits cause bad weather or something.

There is and you know there is and what they are so I'm not going to rehash them.

 

[Gutter Chris]

I don't think there's any basis for saying that he was undercut, and I don't think there's any reason to expect him to be this time. But I get the sense that a lot of his supporters are ruling out beforehand any possibility that he can legitimately lose again. Just yesterday, @Gutter Chris was suggesting that the only reason Biden appears to be leading in the polls and is being covered as the frontrunner is some kind of CNN conspiracy. It's madness, and if CTism spreads to the left, what happens? Seems like encroaching barbarism to me. We have this modern, high-tech society with a pretty solid economy, but then it's being governed by dinosaurs who don't know about any of it and voters whose beliefs are in line with thinking that evil spirits cause bad weather or something.

I dont believe in evil spirits and im not really into conspiracies at all I just dont trust the media very much. Its not a new thing either I didnt forget iraq and its only gotten worse. Its like wag the dog. But yea you can always trust mega rich news corporations with a direct line to whoever it is they are covering .... remember when we found the WMDs and Hillary clinton won the presidency that there was no way she would lose ?

 

[Limbo Pete]

voters whose beliefs are in line with thinking that evil spirits cause bad weather or something.

We must expunge the evil miasma which effuses from such wicked and sinful political climates!

Spoiler

Drain the swamp!

 

[Jack V Savage]

I'm specifically saying that if the Dems fuck Sanders again then they will lose the Sanders supporters.
Thats not spoiled, thats how it works. You want to fuck with democracy, then get fucked and go obsolete.

Again, my concern is that a legitimate loss will be taken as "he was fucked with." I don't like Biden any more than you do--well, seeing what you typed below, I guess I do, but he's very low on my list of preferred candidates. But I'm not going to be petulant and vote Trump or stay home if he gets it. You think you're hurting the evil DNC, but who is really hurt by four more years of Trump? It's not a national committee. It's not people who secretly want regressive tax cuts, weakened labor protections, weakened safety nets, regression on the environment, etc. It's regular Americans, workers, children, etc.

Biden will do whatever he's paid to do. I don't think he'd pick an RBG and otherwise he'd do whatever he was paid to do. He's been pretty clear that he doesn't give a shit about people. His votes for war, incarceration, banks > people, etc are self-evident. Again, not a huge difference, just a slower pay off. Just like incrementalism; 1 step forward, 3 steps back.

It's a huge difference, and obviously he's not being bribed or anything. He's not as far left as Greenwald, OK. But a reasonable person recognizes that there is middle ground.

There is and you know there is and what they are so I'm not going to rehash them.

Objectively, I don't think there is.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Again, my concern is that a legitimate loss will be taken as "he was fucked with." I don't like Biden any more than you do--well, seeing what you typed below, I guess I do, but he's very low on my list of preferred candidates. But I'm not going to be petulant and vote Trump or stay home if he gets it. You think you're hurting the evil DNC, but who is really hurt by four more years of Trump? It's not a national committee. It's not people who secretly want regressive tax cuts, weakened labor protections, weakened safety nets, regression on the environment, etc. It's regular Americans, workers, children, etc.

If its legit then I would hope people won't react this way. And I think more people will vote third party or stay home rather than vote for Trump if Sanders gets screwed, and not just Sanders' supporters, anybody form the middle or the left who feels the system is rigged.

It's a huge difference, and obviously he's not being bribed or anything. He's not as far left as Greenwald, OK. But a reasonable person recognizes that there is middle ground.

He'll "prostitute" himself to the highest bidder and it won't take much because he's no friend to the working class as it is.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I dont believe in evil spirits and im not really into conspiracies at all I just dont trust the media very much. Its not a new thing either I didnt forget iraq and its only gotten worse. Its like wag the dog. But yea you can always trust mega rich news corporations with a direct line to whoever it is they are covering .... remember when we found the WMDs and Hillary clinton won the presidency that there was no way she would lose ?

Polls suggested that Clinton's odds were around 70% going into the election (took a big hit after the Comey letter). The thought that the odds couldn't be 70% because it didn't happen is line with my point about barbarism. But the thought that polling companies or the media is making up polling data to try to help a candidate makes about as much sense as evil spirits. Sorry, but that's the truth.

 

[Jack V Savage]

He'll "prostitute" himself to the highest bidder and it won't take much because he's no friend to the working class as it is.

What does that even mean in terms of concrete action? You're saying that you think he's accepting bribes and will continue to?

 

[Gutter Chris]

Polls suggested that Clinton's odds were around 70% going into the election (took a big hit after the Comey letter). The thought that the odds couldn't be 70% because it didn't happen is line with my point about barbarism. But the thought that polling companies or the media is making up polling data to try to help a candidate makes about as much sense as evil spirits. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Just for fun and since you summoned me can you shrug off the wmds and the medias involvement in that as well ? Why am I the crazy one for noticing that the media has a Fn credibility problem these last 15 years ? why is it so crazy to you that a giant media company would have a favorite candidate ? Have you seen fox anytime in your life or cnn in 2015 and 16?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Just for fun and since you summoned me can you shrug off the wmds and the medias involvement in that as well ?

Don't know enough about what the media's involvement was to say. I'd assume that they were reporting info that they were getting from their sources. Seems to me that's more of a Bush administration credibility issue than a media credibility issue. But, again, I don't really know enough about it.

Why am I the crazy one for noticing that the media has a Fn credibility problem these last 15 years ? why is it so crazy to you that a giant media company would have a favorite candidate ? Have you seen fox anytime in your life or cnn in 2015 and 16?

Fox has a preferred party. I don't think the MSM generally does. Individual talk-show hosts probably do, and I can't imagine that Biden would be the guy. What's crazy to me is the idea that they're making up polling data and deciding to cover someone as the favorite just because they collectively want him to win rather than because he is the favorite. You'd have to have someone making that incredibly unethical, career-threatening decision, and then a lot of people going along with it. It's just not consistent with how a serious news organization is run. You might as well accuse them of putting a hex on Bernie.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

What does that even mean in terms of concrete action? You're saying that you think he's accepting bribes and will continue to?

He's hinted at it in the past how he would prostitute himself for campaign money and that campaign donations are corrosive because they lead to influence.

 

[all caps]

Just for fun and since you summoned me can you shrug off the wmds and the medias involvement in that as well ?

If I was on the payroll I could shrug it off, sure.

Or if I just hated humanity, no problem.

Struggling to come up with another reason, however.

 

[Gutter Chris]

You'd have to have someone making that incredibly unethical, career-threatening decision, and then a lot of people going along with it. It's just not consistent with how a serious news organization is run

Yea theres no un ethical mega crops out there what the F was I thinking

You might as well accuse them of putting a hex on Bernie.

As a media company you dont have to put a hex on anybody when you already control what does and doesnt get aired. You can say a certain candidate is leading , you can say a certain candidate is a goon and if you are into debates or anything major you can also leak that candidate that info

And in return you get a candidate who will talk to you kind of defacto state media

You arent dumb enough to need me to explain any of this you and Im pretty sure you just enjoy arguing for arguments sake

Is Biden your guy ?

 

[Gutter Chris]

If I was on the payroll I could shrug it off, sure.

Or if I just hated humanity, no problem.

Struggling to come up with another reason, however.

Ratings equal commercial dollars and being friendly with insider types gets you interviews . It is my opinion they went along with the wmds for the money that ratings create and too have all kinds of talking heads come on and fill up the 24/7 news cycle

Just like right now we are in a lull before the primary but cnn needs a horse race to talk about so why not create one

when we get a repeat of 2016 because so many plebs were bamboozled into voting for the safe corporate democrat candidate that no one wanted in the first place im going to be pissed off

and then fuckin jack will be like well polls on cnn showed he had a high favorability and no one can predict how voters are going to behave

 

[Jack V Savage]

He's hinted at it in the past how he would prostitute himself for campaign money and that campaign donations are corrosive because they lead to influence.

First vid is clearly a joke. Second one is 10 minutes long. But the notion that campaign donations are so important at the presidential level is silly anyway.

If I was on the payroll I could shrug it off, sure.

Or if I just hated humanity, no problem.

Struggling to come up with another reason, however.

Not believing crazy CTs = you hate humanity. But in reality, people believing CTs does more harm to the country than just about anything else.

Yea theres no un ethical mega crops out there what the F was I thinking

Do you think that's an intellectually honest response? I'm saying that the specific crazy CT you posited would require a lot of different people taking career-ending risks for no real payoff, and then you're presenting it as if I'm arguing against the existence of any unethical activity by corporations. IMO, discussions would go much better if people didn't feel the need to do that kind of thing.

As a media company you dont have to put a hex on anybody when you already control what does and doesnt get aired.

Right, the hex thing was an analogy, illustrating the absurdity of your thinking.

You can say a certain candidate is leading , you can say a certain candidate is a goon and if you are into debates or anything major you can also leak that candidate that info

And in return you get a candidate who will talk to you kind of defacto state media

Who makes these evil decisions, and who do they communicate them to? If you think the whole thing through, you realize that it's absurd.

You arent dumb enough to need me to explain any of this you and Im pretty sure you just enjoy arguing for arguments sake

No, I genuinely, seriously, (truly, madly, deeply) think that your position on this issue is wildly irrational and obviously false.

Is Biden your guy ?

Biden is near Gabbard on the bottom of my list of Democratic nominee candidates. Try to understand that some of us care about accuracy even if the truth is unfavorable.

 

[all caps]

Not believing crazy CTs = you hate humanity. But in reality, people believing CTs does more harm to the country than just about anything else.

Not believing crazy conspiracy theories sets you up nicely to apologize to the country you wiped off the face of the earth, I agree.

 

[Jack V Savage]

and then fuckin jack will be like well polls on cnn showed he had a high favorability and no one can predict how voters are going to behave

Hey, @Cajun, this reminds me of a discussion we had a while back. My recollection is that you were arguing that Democrats should nominate Biden because unlike Clinton, he has no "baggage" and is likable, and I was telling you that if he looked likely to win, he'd get smeared, and the right would see him as a demon, and a lot of self-declared leftists would hate him every bit as much as they hate Hillary. Already happening. I can also say in advance that if Biden tumbles (which I think is possible, as I think a lot of his support comes from the perception that he's "electable"), whoever takes his place will get the same treatment--demonized by the right and hated by True Leftists. Even St. Bernie will get it (already starting to be way less popular with the right than he was last time).

 

[Jack V Savage]

Just found the thread. I didn't re-read it so y'all can check my recollection.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...hilary-kaine-with-biden-booker.3651585/page-2

 

[Lead]

I’m just happy it’s all plats in here

 

[Jack V Savage]

Here's another poster who said people couldn't be convinced to hate Biden:

I really don't see a significant percent of the people having "vicious hate" for Biden. No way. He may not win, but he doesnt bring out the worst in people like Hillary and Trump do.

I respect Biden as a senator. Russ Feingold too. Many other Democrats. Feingold was the only person to vote against the Patriot Act I think.

Let's see what he has to say now:

Trump. Biden can take his creepy white guilt and shove it up his ass.