War Room Lounge V43: STEM is Overrated

[TheGreatA]

Taken by itself I could trust him but it seems he contradicted himself the day before.

That's from wikipedia and I can't or I won't look up the sources, but if true would invalidate his point about porn.
Not directly related to violent porn and psychopaths because I was never into that stuff but I'm always a bit skeptical about these anti-porn types because most anti-porn stuff I've read is so stupid.
I'm not talking about the evangelicals, but it's a common trope among the nofap crowd that porn makes you uninterested in real sex, it gives you impotence, or that you will only want to have sex with girls that look like pornstars. It has been so different to me that I can't take it seriously.
The more porn I watched the more I wanted to taste the real thing, most girls in porn aren't actually that good looking and watching them didn't make me lose any interest in average women.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/mar/11/young-men-porn-induced-erectile-dysfunction

Really? You can get hard by watching pixels but not with actual boobs in your face? Maybe you should try some cock instead.

I would imagine that these people experience dysfunction mainly because the "real experience" for them, is being with a woman who is probably well-below their beauty ideals, both in behaviour and physical appearance.

And that's not to say that their standards are necessarily even that high (which is what the "incels" are usually blamed for), it's just that your average "awkward dude" is not even going to have sex with the "average decent-looking woman" (which, in fairness, doesn't really exist). They'd probably be someone who's fairly over-weight and not too pleasant in behaviour (which is about the average nowadays).

Most women in the West nowadays are over-weight (as are the men). It's just not that pleasant, I suppose, for over-weight people to have sex, especially if they are very awkward in behaviour. So they'd rather just harbour idealized fantasies, of what "could've been".

You being from, I believe, Brazil(?) probably have a very different culture when it comes to taking care of physical appearance and being socially aware, where being decent-looking and either masculine/feminine (instead of androgynous) in behaviour is to a degree still enforced at a societal level.

 

[HereticBD]

Most scum end up blaming external factors because they're ultimately incapable of blaming themselves for their actions. They want to believe that if things were different, they would've been just as "good" as anybody else, and that they were just unfortunate to end up how they were, thus relieving themselves of any guilt.

True, but I don't think their claims should be outright dismissed, regardless of what their intentions may be by in explaining what they believe to be the trigger point for them. At the end of the day, the problem is ultimately themselves. No question. They didn't have situations unique to humanity as a whole, whether it was an abusive upbringing, or exposure to violent pornography, or what have you. Plenty of people go through what they went through, and didn't decide to murder a bunch of folks. They are ultimately responsible for their own actions no matter what.

That said, there is nothing wrong with using them as a source to try to understand their behavior further. While they may view it as excusing their behavior and putting the blame elsewhere, I don't, and nobody else should. I look at it purely from a research perspective on what makes these guys tick. You also obviously have to take what they say with a grain of salt though, because they are psychopaths. As for Bundy, I just don't think what he was saying about pornography was a big stretch, and if he was saying it to anyone other than some super Christian dude who hated pornography, I don't think anyone else would question it either. He also says a lot of other things in that interview that ring true. Such as people like him not being some obvious deranged individual, but seemingly normal people with the ability to blend in with society. His revelations weren't exactly out of this world, and I think he was being genuine with a lot of what he said.

Who knows though? Psychopath gonna psychopath, and they fried that psychopath, so we'll never get any more insight into his psyche than we already have.

 

[TheGreatA]

True, but I don't think their claims should be outright dismissed, regardless of what their intentions may be by in explaining what they believe to be the trigger point for them. At the end of the day, the problem is ultimately themselves. No question. They didn't have situations unique to humanity as a whole, whether it was an abusive upbringing, or exposure to violent pornography, or what have you. Plenty of people go through what they went through, and didn't decide to murder a bunch of folks. They are ultimately responsible for their own actions no matter what.

That said, there is nothing wrong with using them as a source to try to understand their behavior further. While they may view it as excusing their behavior and putting the blame elsewhere, I don't, and nobody else should. I look at it purely from a research perspective on what makes these guys tick. You also obviously have to take what they say with a grain of salt though, because they are psychopaths. As for Bundy, I just don't think what he was saying about pornography was a big stretch, and if he was saying it to anyone other than some super Christian dude who hated pornography, I don't think anyone else would question it either. He also says a lot of other things in that interview that ring true. Such as people like him not being some obvious deranged individual, but seemingly normal people with the ability to blend in with society. His revelations weren't exactly out of this world, and I think he was being genuine with a lot of what he said.

Who knows though? Psychopath gonna psychopath, and they fried that psychopath, so we'll never get any more insight into his psyche than we already have.

In Bundy's case, I struggle to take any claims he made too seriously because his whole life revolved around lies, manipulation, and so forth, thus he kind of discredited himself as being a source on anything.

I do agree that we should use them as a source to observe their behaviour, but this does not necessarily mean giving any credit to their words, because they have, again, discredited themselves as human beings. We can only attempt to decipher the puzzle that they are presenting, since most of those "types" of humans often have very complex methods with which they attempt to hide their true agendas, a web of lies which is confusing enough to even themselves, let alone an outside observer.

Once a man has become capable of completely detaching themselves and their intents from what they portray to others, it's border-line impossible for them to "put the genie back in the bottle", so to speak, and become a honest person. They will remain that type of a human for as long as they live. They become almost predictable in being completely insincere, and having a hidden agenda.

Anyway, there are different types of impulsive killers, some are completely honest, some are not. Some killers were made, some were born. There are differences, for sure. I wouldn't say that even Bundy was "born" a killer necessarily, but he was definitely born with a disproportionately high potential to end up as a killer, due to his ability to detach himself from his words and actions, probably due to lacking any sort of a conscience whatsoever, or any concept of guilt and consequences.

We should worry more about these sorts of personality types, than worry about how we might potentially "provoke them". It's like the Muslim jihad thing, when a man is so easily moved to mass murder, it is no longer a matter of whether we can prevent it or not. Only they can, and they´re not willing to.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

I would imagine that these people experience dysfunction mainly because the "real experience" for them, is being with a woman who is probably well-below their beauty ideals, both in behaviour and physical appearance.

And that's not to say that their standards are necessarily even that high (which is what the "incels" are usually blamed for), it's just that your average "awkward dude" is not even going to have sex with the "average decent-looking woman" (which, in fairness, doesn't really exist). They'd probably be someone who's fairly over-weight and not too pleasant in behaviour (which is about the average nowadays).

Most women in the West nowadays are over-weight (as are the men). It's just not that pleasant, I suppose, for over-weight people to have sex, especially if they are very awkward in behaviour. So they'd rather just harbour idealized fantasies, of what "could've been".

You being from, I believe, Brazil(?) probably have a very different culture when it comes to taking care of physical appearance and being socially aware, where being decent-looking and either masculine/feminine (instead of androgynous) in behaviour is to a degree still enforced at a societal level.

So who's watching all the BBW porn on lobstertube.com?

 

[HereticBD]

In Bundy's case, I struggle to take any claims he made too seriously because his whole life revolved around lies, manipulation, and so forth, thus he kind of discredited himself as being a source on anything.

True. I guess I just put a little extra stock into it, because it was essentially a death bed confessional, and nothing he was saying was completely outlandish. It's also possible he was trying to buy himself more time by seemingly being so candid, that he might convince people in charge that his life had some worth in merely exploring psychopathic behavior, which in fairness, it kind of did. He did in fact help profile the Green River Killer. Still glad they fried his ass though.

 

[TheGreatA]

True. I guess I just put a little extra stock into it, because it was essentially a death bed confessional, and nothing he was saying was completely outlandish. It's also possible he was trying to buy himself more time by seemingly being so candid, that he might convince people in charge that his life had some worth in merely exploring psychopathic behavior, which in fairness, it kind of did. He did in fact help profile the Green River Killer. Still glad they fried his ass though.

I don't doubt that he used a variety of degen filth, as a device that would enable him to take the "next step", to becoming a serial killer. But I think he already had a desire to, in the first place. Similar to the degenerate heroin addict, the tobacco, cannabis, alcohol, etc. are just a "pit-stop". If they did not exist, he may well have just gone from 0 to 100 immediately, instead of "wasting time".

At his death, he was probably driven by the desire to feel redeemed to a degree, to believe that he could've been "different" if the society was different. But I wouldn't grant him such redemption, unlike some of the moral relativists might. Some men are bound to be pieces of shit. It is unfortunate to admit, but I feel as if I've observed it. They do not possess a will to change, and thus, they won't.

Seen people who were pretty much scum when they were born, and scum when they were dead. That's just how it is. We cannot seem to eradicate this sort of behaviour fully, no matter what is done. That doesn't mean that the efforts are hopeless, but rather, it just means that we can't be discouraged from what we're doing, just because one guy decided to massacre people. It doesn't mean that everybody else needs to "change", according to the one lone nutjob's whims. These people will continue to exist, always, for as long as humanity exists.

I have personally pinpointed the cause to be more at an existential rather than just a cultural level, and since we cannot change our existence to be that of a "god's", the pursuit to change such people, are rather hopeless. The society cannot give them what they want, no matter what, and they won't take "no" for an answer.

When somebody can only feel joy in killing the "weak", in empowering himself through extermination of others (which at a biological level, is unfortunately not a completely invalid strategy, as observed in many animal species), there's not much that the society can do "for him", unless we are running a literal Nazi regime, where such behaviour can be appreciated

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

 

[senri]

How I feel when stepping out into sunlight. I love the night...

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

There really isn't much to Rand to be completely honest. I spent a week huffing glue, err reading Atlas Shrugged, and the philosophy is, crudely, that (a) selfishness is rational, and therefore (b) selfishness is good, and therefore (c) a person who accumulates capital and power is good and virtuous, and therefore (d) the persons or institutions that seek to augment or moderate the maximum distribution of capital to those good persons are evil, lazy mooches who hate freedom.

My favorite is her characterization of persons seeking augmented distribution as "looters." That's particularly stupid since it presumes that present economic productivity is absolute and doesn't seem to realize that persons seeking to inhibit economies into neo-feudalism are effectively "looting" the economy and world of the excess wealth and happiness that would be produced in a coherently managed economy and society. I forget what the logical fallacy is called, but I remember my economics professor analogizing it to an environmentalist who is against having large yards because of the ecological wastefulness but then buys a former commercial building and then builds a big yard and says it's maximally good because the yard is better than the previous concrete - not realizing that the yard being better than the concrete doesn't negate the fact that making the lot fully green would be exponentially better for the environment.

Anyways, it's intellectually, philosophically, and economically vapid. And that's without getting into the fact that Rand's private life really contradicts her supposed commitment to those hyper-individualistic principles.

What is the connection to Locke and Nietzsche? What do the right wingers take from them to argument for Rand? I didn't read Nietzsche outside of some stuff I was forced in high school (Apollonian and Dionysian, something about getting drunk) but I liked Locke. I can't even fathom him in the same sentence as Rand.
Bonus:

Too bad Marge didn't reply the bible of right wing losers is The Bible, not the Fountainhead.

 

[PubliusVentidius]

I honestly don't understand how anyone can take Nietzsche's philosophy seriously, it's late stage edgelordism = the philosophy. There is a great take-down of Nietzsche by Bertrand Russell in his ''History of Western Philosophy'', I should post some excerpts if I find them because they were quite amusing.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I would imagine that these people experience dysfunction mainly because the "real experience" for them, is being with a woman who is probably well-below their beauty ideals, both in behaviour and physical appearance.

And that's not to say that their standards are necessarily even that high (which is what the "incels" are usually blamed for), it's just that your average "awkward dude" is not even going to have sex with the "average decent-looking woman" (which, in fairness, doesn't really exist). They'd probably be someone who's fairly over-weight and not too pleasant in behaviour (which is about the average nowadays).

Most women in the West nowadays are over-weight (as are the men). It's just not that pleasant, I suppose, for over-weight people to have sex, especially if they are very awkward in behaviour. So they'd rather just harbour idealized fantasies, of what "could've been".

You being from, I believe, Brazil(?) probably have a very different culture when it comes to taking care of physical appearance and being socially aware, where being decent-looking and either masculine/feminine (instead of androgynous) in behaviour is to a degree still enforced at a societal level.

I'm from Brazil yes although I lived a few years in Europe in Portugal and Germany.
German girls are much better looking than Brazilians, most Brazilians are very ugly because they're poor (people missing teeth are not hot) and obesity is also rampant. Middle to upper class Brazilians are similar to these in Europe. Do not get fooled by actors and models.
You're right some degree of femininity is still enforced although it's being eroded daily by certain groups.
In the end, the point is that I don't know. I still get excited by obese (not morbidly obese) women, although I feel a bit disgusted afterwards. I think you hit the nail on the head with the behavior.
I'd prefer this:

To this:

I guess it could be also that some guys like the young Jenna Jameson or Stormy Daniels look, if that's the case then they're out of luck with average girls. I was always more into Lexi Belle.

 

[TheGreatA]

I'm from Brazil yes although I lived a few years in Europe in Portugal and Germany.
German girls are much better looking than Brazilians, most Brazilians are very ugly because they're poor (people missing teeth are not hot) and obesity is also rampant. Middle to upper class Brazilians are similar to these in Europe. Do not get fooled by actors and models.
You're right some degree of femininity is still enforced although it's being eroded daily by certain groups.
In the end, the point is that I don't know. I still get excited by obese (not morbidly obese) women, although I feel a bit disgusted afterwards. I think you hit the nail on the head with the behavior.
I'd prefer this:

To this:

I guess it could be also that some guys like the young Jenna Jameson or Stormy Daniels look, if that's the case then they're out of luck with average girls. I was always more into Lexi Belle.

Germany seems to be one of those countries where there are more fat men than fat women. In that sense, ideal for a "foreign conquest" of sorts.

Being "overweight" is obviously not the only factor, but ever-increasing obesity, added to a host of other factors that make people "unappealing", such as social awkwardness, I would say, constitutes to what is happening in the "West".

It's not that men have suddenly changed biologically to abhor women, and become dysfunctional, even if their testosterone levels have indeed decreased according to statistics. It's just that physically and socially, people are not what they once were, and culture to some extent, enforces them to stay where they are at, as these sorts of infertile kind of people who are detached from reality.

I think that it's women's increasing standards for men, that are actually causing this sort of an "incel" phenomenon to occur, more so than men's increased standards for women. Women, right now, atleast in the West, are in the position of being able to demand. And the women that are "above average" or even "average", are demanding more than what the "average man" is capable of offering, thus leaving the men only with the option of decreasing their standards to where they no longer feel satisfied.

I think it's fully possible that this sort of "dysfunction" is to a degree explained by the fact that these sorts of interaction have become repulsive rather than "magnetic". Thus, I think the solution lies in helping people become more appealing to one another, once again. Demanding men to just decrease their standards to the absolute zero, I think, is just not going to work as a solution, because not all men (even if many might be) are sex-obsessed enough to jump into bed with just anything that resembles a woman, especially with their test levels decreasing by the year.

I do have to say, having observed the process, that our institutions do a pretty good job of eradicating all that is natural and attractive about women, and replacing the feminine form with these sorts of androgynous beings that no longer possess any natural magnetism, incapable of attracting anything but bitterness and hatred towards them.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

Interesting read on McConnell

 

[K1levelgrappler]

 

[TheGreatA]

I honestly don't understand how anyone can take Nietzsche's philosophy seriously, it's late stage edgelordism = the philosophy. There is a great take-down of Nietzsche by Bertrand Russell in his ''History of Western Philosophy'', I should post some excerpts if I find them because they were quite amusing.

I don't think Nietzsche was so much a "philosopher" as he was, almost, a "mysticist", or an explorer of the "darker aspects" of humanity.

I don't think his writings were intended to serve as a foundation for anybody's stable life philosophy. He fully admitted that one would go mad by putting themselves through the trials that he did. Nonetheless, his "work" was important, as was a Machiavelli's previously, in illustrating to us what regular people don't necessarily want to acknowledge in the light of day.

One needs to possess a certain type of personality to be intrigued by his writings. Russell, I would say, is the complete opposite in personality, to that of a Nietzsche, thus he probably found nothing of value in his writings. There was a huge rift between the British and German types of "philosophers" in those days.

The British wanted to make sense of things, whereas the Germans, at that time, were mostly intrigued by the unexplored, unexplainable, "occult" ideas that went beyond normal imagination, and weren't really interested in arguing about concepts that already existed. This led to many of them residing between the thin line of "genius" and outright "madman".

 

[JDragon]

still need to add to the topic. but need more time to elaborate.

in other news, Douglas Lima takes on Michael Page tonight. What do you think? Will MVP get derailed?

 

[Trotsky]

One of my life goals is to get a big old hug from a gorilla. My zookeeper friend says it's "unsafe" and that I'm an "idiot."

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

One of my life goals is to get a big old hug from a gorilla. My zookeeper friend says it's "unsafe" and that I'm an "idiot."

@Zookeeper Gabe your thoughts?

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

 

[AgonyandIrony]

I'm so friggin ready for my raise in August. At my booking agent job I made 1,512 this week. With the raise it would have been 1,865

Also I got an apartment in the French Quarter! So stoked.