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War Room Lounge V26: Neoliberal Clicks

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You need to correct me Mr. Hunter. Because you would also be correcting yourself. My fallible existence is what will gape your wonderful body.... The answer comes in opposing tensions, you will feel the sliding.....
Of course. I am what I am. We're all fallible, but all the honest people here know we grow closer by leaning from each other.

To wit:
Basically immovable property. (Real estate). Land and permanent structures or similar fixtures. As opposed to personal property,
I found this informative,
Suck it, Blackacre!
And I had to look up this reference to learn even more (but it was my original question about real property that spawned it).

And this, don't you like a hero with red cheeks?
53% Socialist (Looks like InternetHero is a little red in the cheeks.)
By being pro-active, I merely accelerate the process, as did Trotsky with his website recommendation.
 
Last edited:
All memes are removed. Regular threads are for discussion of the topic at hand. If you like the meme, just post it in the meme thread.
What about comics? What I posted was actually a comic. Meme can be a vague term now days.
 
Do, but give it more than one play within a reasonable time frame. The clips make it look like some kind of science fiction action film but it isn't. It's Noir to the core, and really more like this, which was beautifully done.


Indeed it is. And I never hated the voice over the way some do since I attributed it to an homage to the form.
 
Of course. I am what I am. We're all fallible, but all the honest people here know we grow closer by leaning from each other.

To wit:

I found this informative,

And I had to look up this reference to learn even more (but it was my original question about real property that spawned it).

And this, don't you like a hero with red cheeks?

By being pro-active, I merely accelerate the process, as did Trotsky with his website recommendation.

Yes, wonderful gaping Mr. Hunter....
 
In a perfect world, or even a world with a perfect way to know who was not corrupt in order to ensure putting only them in charge, that would be great. Instead, life is messy, and you tilt at authoritarian windmills nevertheless. Not very realistic for a pessimist.

I'm well aware of the fallen state of humanity. The human capacity for evil is fully realized in Catholic philosophy. That is why I think a theocracy or partial theocracy will help to place some restraint on the current hedonistic society. It is because I am pessimistic that I desire a theocracy.

My username was inspired by Roger Scruton's book The Uses of Pessimism: And the Danger of False Hope. I found this particular passage to be intriguing:

"In order to see human beings as they are, therefore, and to school oneself in the art of loving them, it is necessary to apply a dose of pessimism to all one’s plans and aspirations. I don’t go along with Schopenhauer’s comprehensive gloom, or with the philosophy of renunciation that he derived from it. I have no doubt that St Paul was right to recommend faith, hope and love (agape) as the virtues which order life to the greater good. But I have no doubt too that hope, detached from faith and untempered by the evidence of history, is a dangerous asset, and one that threatens not only those who embrace it, but all those within range of their illusions."
 
Indeed it is. And I never hated the voice over the way some do since I attributed it to an homage to the form.

That's because you probably went to see it at the damn theatre when it was originally released FFS.

{<jordan}

OG.

But no, I don't mind the V/O at all for that particular reason although my initial exposure to the film came maybe around 2008? The "Final Cut" was the first version I saw and so tends to be my preferred. A fucking masterwerk.



Also check out this thread when you get a minute. My post you saw and quoted was moved from it, and how I sold it:

http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/147792931/
 
I'm well aware of the fallen state of humanity. The human capacity for evil is fully realized in Catholic philosophy. That is why I think a theocracy or partial theocracy will help to place some restraint on the current hedonistic society. It is because I am pessimistic that I desire a theocracy.

My username was inspired by Roger Scruton's book The Uses of Pessimism: And the Danger of False Hope. I found this particular passage to be intriguing:

"In order to see human beings as they are, therefore, and to school oneself in the art of loving them, it is necessary to apply a dose of pessimism to all one’s plans and aspirations. I don’t go along with Schopenhauer’s comprehensive gloom, or with the philosophy of renunciation that he derived from it. I have no doubt that St Paul was right to recommend faith, hope and love (agape) as the virtues which order life to the greater good. But I have no doubt too that hope, detached from faith and untempered by the evidence of history, is a dangerous asset, and one that threatens not only those who embrace it, but all those within range of their illusions."

Continue to talk to him, he is throbbing...
 
Sounds pretty good but I have a few questions about it:

- How do you moderate the now ascendant Catholic majority from wanting to use their power to punish the minorities?

- How do you handle dissident groups?

- Does everyone have equal standing or do some groups have less rights due to their beliefs, or else have to pay say a religious tax for their troublesome activities in the society?

- How does Catechism apply to the realms of Law and Trade Principles without causing major disruptions and poverty in the society?

The questions are not for criticism, I want to see alternative approaches to how this framework might work.

I think the realm of rule and the realm of spiritualism are better as separate domains, but the more of the latter we have the better.

Those questions are far beyond my intellectual capacity, but I will try my best to answer them as best as I can.

The catechism does an excellent job at promoting diversity, pluralism and acceptance. It commands people to love one another, forgive one another and accept one another for his and her differences. It talks about accepting and tolerating other religions. In a Catholic theocracy other religions would be allowed and people would be encouraged to see one another as individuals. Though, Catholicism would still be the dominant religion which would naturally limit the political influence of other religions.

The catechism is also in favour of private property, business and free-market competition. The catechism does say that business and the free-market should be used to benefit everyone. I'm not sure how a theocracy would limit wealth and ensure everyone got a fair piece of the pie.

Quotes from the Catechism:

Regarding Minorities:

1931 Respect for the human person proceeds by way of respect for the principle that "everyone should look upon his neighbour (without any exception) as 'another self,' above all bearing in mind his life and the means necessary for living it with dignity."37 No legislation could by itself do away with the fears, prejudices, and attitudes of pride and selfishness which obstruct the establishment of truly fraternal societies. Such behaviour will cease only through the charity that finds in every man a "neighbour," a brother.

1935 The equality of men rests essentially on their dignity as persons and the rights that flow from it:
Every form of social or cultural discrimination in fundamental personal rights on the grounds of sex, race, color, social conditions, language, or religion must be curbed and eradicated as incompatible with God's design.40

Regarding other Religions:

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city.

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as 'a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.

Regarding Economics:

2425
The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism." She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of "capitalism," individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor. Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market." Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.

2431 The responsibility of the state. "Economic activity, especially the activity of a market economy, cannot be conducted in an institutional, juridical, or political vacuum. On the contrary, it presupposes sure guarantees of individual freedom and private property, as well as a stable currency and efficient public services. Hence the principal task of the state is to guarantee this security, so that those who work and produce can enjoy the fruits of their labors and thus feel encouraged to work efficiently and honestly. . . . Another task of the state is that of overseeing and directing the exercise of human rights in the economic sector. However, primary responsibility in this area belongs not to the state but to individuals and to the various groups and associations which make up society."

Source:
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
 
Ah how wonderful i have a late night rendezvous with my new guest at a fine event had over in the downtown area. They will come over to my home for the annual new years feast. A time to elation, and dance...

 
@InternetHero

I found this blog that gives some idea of what a Catholic theocracy in the USA might look like. Taylor Marshall is a little more extreme than I am when it comes to abortion and divorce, but it is still an interesting list to look at:

If America were a fully Catholic country, here is what it might look like…

Here are a few examples:

  • The Catholic Church, not the State, would organize and perform the Seven Corporal Acts of Mercy (feeding the poor, clothing the naked, caring for the sick, etc.)
  • According to Saint Thomas Aquinas, the natural law prescribes that parents, not the State, are primarily responsible for the education of children. Saint Paul says: “And you, fathers…educate your children in the discipline and correction of the Lord.” It is the job of fathers, not the State, to educate. This truth of Saint Paul would be recognized by law and encouraged through homeschooling, educational co-ops, parochial schools, and locally governed public schools on the pattern of subsidiarity.
  • America would be known as a place where the dignity of women, especially motherhood, is celebrated.
  • Those of different religions would be tolerated and by no means forced to convert to Catholicism. Conversion, as the Popes have taught, is an act of the will and people should not be forced through political coercion.
 
@InternetHero

I found this blog that gives some idea of what a Catholic theocracy in the USA might look like. Taylor Marshall is a little more extreme than I am when it comes to abortion and divorce, but it is still an interesting list to look at:

If America were a fully Catholic country, here is what it might look like…

Here are a few examples:

  • The Catholic Church, not the State, would organize and perform the Seven Corporal Acts of Mercy (feeding the poor, clothing the naked, caring for the sick, etc.)
  • According to Saint Thomas Aquinas, the natural law prescribes that parents, not the State, are primarily responsible for the education of children. Saint Paul says: “And you, fathers…educate your children in the discipline and correction of the Lord.” It is the job of fathers, not the State, to educate. This truth of Saint Paul would be recognized by law and encouraged through homeschooling, educational co-ops, parochial schools, and locally governed public schools on the pattern of subsidiarity.
  • America would be known as a place where the dignity of women, especially motherhood, is celebrated.
  • Those of different religions would be tolerated and by no means forced to convert to Catholicism. Conversion, as the Popes have taught, is an act of the will and people should not be forced through political coercion.

How are things?
 
That hormone deficient lilliputian sure is talented.

i


He is not much bigger than these little kids.

cal013015-gyw-1.jpg


ve0aMKK.jpg
 
interesting article

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow..._Chrb3m3fdjkyMdNG6D8Jx10fqc7Vuob-CZwlkWXCZZEA

Over the last decade, California has led the nation in reducing its prison population.

The state has shortened sentences and diverted some offenders to the counties for incarceration and supervision, transforming California’s criminal justice system into what supporters hope will become a humane model around the country.

But amid the changes, crime has increased in recent years, sparking debate about the causes and giving ammunition to those leading a new effort to roll back some of the reforms.

An analysis by the Marshall Project and the Los Angeles Times found that California’s crime rates remain near historic lows, but overall crime spiked in both 2012 and 2015, the years that immediately followed two major statewide measures aimed at decreasing the number of people in prison. Those jumps were mainly driven by increases in property crimes, particularly thefts from motor vehicles.

The California Experiment
This is one of an occasional series examining the impact of recent justice measures aimed at reducing incarceration. It is a collaboration between the Los Angeles Times and the Marshall Project, a nonprofit news outlet.

After decades of mirroring national downward trends in violent crime, California saw a 12% increase from 2014 to 2017, while the violent crime rate in the other 49 states together increased only 3%, the analysis showed. In 2014, California voters approved a ballot measure that reduced sentences for many low-level drug and property crimes.

la-1545291841-6s9kam0io9-snap-image

(Los Angeles Times)
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(Los Angeles Times)
California’s property crime rate fell slightly in the last two years, but remains 2% higher than it was in 2014. By contrast, the rate of property crimes in the rest of the nation has dropped by 10% over the same period.

There is no simple explanation.

Crime trends vary dramatically from county to county. Thirty-one of the state’s 58 counties saw an increase in violent crime last year, while 22 saw an increase in property crimes. The rest stayed flat or declined. What single factor can explain the fact that violent crime went up 6% last year in Los Angeles but fell 6% in Sacramento?

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Los Angeles police investigators work at the scene of a 2017 fatal shooting in Hollywood. (Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times)
There also have been large differences in the way counties spent the billions in state money allocated to implement the new measures. Some focused on building jails, others on recruiting and deploying police, and still others experimented with collaborative courts and reentry programs.

To complicate matters, specific crimes come with their own caveats. Reports of rape have increased nationally since 2013, for example, but sexual assaults have traditionally been underreported, and part of the increase stems from the FBI’s decision to broaden its definition of rape in 2013. (The Marshall Project and Times data analysis excluded rape.) Reports of aggravated assaults in California also have increased, but part of that increase is likely due to underreporting from 2005 to 2012 by the Los Angeles Police Department.

California’s criminal reform revolution began in earnest in 2011 after the U.S. Supreme Court approved a cap on the number of inmates in prison. Lawmakers responded by passing Assembly Bill 109, known as realignment, which lowered the prison population by shifting the burden to the counties to house and supervise thousands of inmates convicted of crimes that the law categorized as nonviolent and nonserious.

la-1545292068-9s2oq851ew-snap-image

(Los Angeles Times)
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(Los Angeles Times)
Three years later, California voters approved Proposition 47, which turned drug use and most theft convictions from felonies to misdemeanors. In 2016, voters overhauled the state parole system by backing Proposition 57, which gave thousands of inmates the chance to earn an earlier release from prison.

The undeniable result of all these measures is that people are on the street today who would have been locked up in previous years.

Critics of the reforms argue that they have created a permissive climate that makes policing harder and weakens the deterrent effect of a possible prison sentence.

la-1545068812-53pkufbvm0-snap-image

Assemblyman Jim Cooper (D-Elk Grove) has been a leading critic of California's Proposition 47, which downgraded drug use and most theft convictions from felonies to misdemeanors. (Rich Pedroncelli / Associated Press)
“There’s no accountability,” said Assemblyman Jim Cooper (D-Elk Grove). “People know they can get away with things. That’s contributed to it. That’s really been a big source of frustration. No one’s going to jail anymore.”

Cooper, a retired Sacramento County sheriff’s captain, has been a leading voice in a coalition of prosecutors and law enforcement groups pushing back.

A statewide initiative that will appear on the 2020 ballot would reverse some provisions of Proposition 47, toughen supervision of parolees and disqualify some prisoners from early release.

Backers of the proposed rollback argue that the state’s drug courts, intended as an alternative to criminal courts, are seeing fewer people because prosecutors can no longer force someone into treatment with the threat of a felony. (Some counties, including San Diego, have reported decreases in drug court participation since Proposition 47, but no statewide figures are available.)

Those who favor toughening the law also claim counties are struggling to supervise offenders with violent criminal records.

Supporters of the prison downsizing measures dispute any link between the new laws and an increase in crime. They argue that using 2014 as a baseline — the year with the fewest crimes reported in the state since the 1960s — unfairly skews any analysis.

“To look at it from a year-to-year basis is very short-sighted,” said Michael Romano, the director of the Three Strikes Project at Stanford Law School who helped write Proposition 47. “We really have had a sustained downward trend over the past decade or two.”

He said it’s unlikely any single factor led to an increase in crime, but rather a combination of issues, such as poverty and unemployment, in different counties throughout the state.

la-1545069366-8tr30yp2lp-snap-image

Inmates wait in line at Los Angeles County's Men's Central Jail. (Maria Alejandra Cardona / Los Angeles Times)
Californians for Safety and Justice, a group that co-authored Proposition 47, points out that several states saw larger increases in violent crime than California from 2016 to 2017. (An analysis by The Times and the Marshall Project found 20 states with larger increases in violent crime rates.) They note that none of the recent laws changed penalties for violent crimes.

In 2013, the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California found that the first major prison downsizing law, realignment, had no effect on violent crime, but did lead to an increase in auto thefts. In 2016, a prestigious social science journal reached a similar conclusion.

Under realignment, people convicted of auto theft, a nonviolent felony, usually serve shorter sentences in their local jails and are released under local supervision.

Two studies published this summer — one by a UC Irvine criminologist and another by the Public Policy Institute of California —found no link between Proposition 47 and increases in violent crime. Both noted a possible link between the initiative and increases in larceny, particularly thefts from motor vehicles, although the Irvine study found those links too tenuous to conclude Proposition 47 was to blame.

After national crime data for 2017 released this fall showed California departed from the national trend — violent crime in California ticked up slightly while it fell slightly across the 49 other states taken together — researchers said they planned to revisit the question of a link between Proposition 47 and violent crime. California’s robbery rate jumped 14% from 2014 to 2017; the rest of the country saw a 7% drop.

“It is troubling and deserves more attention,” said Magnus Lofstrom, policy director of corrections at the Public Policy Institute of California.

San Francisco’s struggle with car break-ins illustrates the difficulty of trying to determine if the reforms are linked to changes in local crimes.

Thefts from vehicles nearly tripled in the city from 2011 to 2017, when they hit 29,851.

la-1545070055-6kf08k4aa1-snap-image

Concentrated tourist areas in San Francisco, such as the city's curvy Lombard Street, have seen a rise in car break-ins, which have nearly tripled from 2011 to 2017. (Mark Boster / Los Angeles Times)
Weary residents have grown used to the feel of car window glass crunching underfoot. Bob Hinckley estimates he and his wife have seen dozens of break-ins since moving into a home about a year ago near the top of the city’s famously curvy Lombard Street. Brazen thieves target unwitting tourists who leave valuables in plain view. He once saw a suspect drive up onto the sidewalk to avoid the police.

“Why do they come over here to break into cars? Because that’s where the tourists are with their bags,” Hinckley said.

An analysis of break-ins confirmed that these thefts were concentrated near tourist hot spots — a stretch of road near museums in Golden Gate Park, a viewpoint overlooking the Pacific Ocean, a street near the Palace of Fine Arts — or in large, public parking garages.

San Francisco police Lt. Michael Nevin, who until November oversaw car break-in investigations in a district that includes many of the tourist hot spots, said he had noticed a sharp spike before Proposition 47. Nevin said break-ins are often charged as “auto burglary,” which was not affected by the ballot measure. (Auto burglary can be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony.) He said the break-ins are typically committed by organized theft rings that work in groups of two or three.

Asked whether new criminal justice measures have hampered his daily policing work, he said: “Absolutely not.”

The break-ins have become a hot-button issue in San Francisco, particularly because Dist. Atty. George Gascón co-authored Proposition 47.

In September, Suzy Loftus, a former prosecutor who now works as a lawyer for the San Francisco County Sheriff’s Department, announced she would challenge Gascón with a focus on the car break-ins. Shortly after, Gascón announced he would not seek reelection.

Loftus said she supports Proposition 47 and prison downsizing, but says the crime increase shows a failure by San Francisco leaders to adapt to needed criminal justice changes.

“It’s easy to say the changes in our system are causing this. It’s harder to say, ‘Hey, we needed those changes, and we’ve got to work together better locally,’” she said.

Another offense that has become central to the backlash against the new criminal justice measures is shoplifting.

Proposition 47 raised the value of stolen goods necessary to charge a felony from $400 to $950. Retailers complained that organized theft rings were taking advantage of the reduced punishments to steal misdemeanor levels of merchandise.

“It’s gotten far worse in the last few years — there are no consequences,” said Rudy Ruiz, owner of World 1-1 Games, a video game store in a mall about an hour north of Santa Barbara.

Frustrated at how long it would take for police to respond, Ruiz said he began chasing shoplifters and posting their images on social media in an attempt to shame them. On one occasion, he caught a woman slipping an item into her baby stroller.

“I’m not a million-dollar corporation,” he said. “If somebody steals $100, that’s a lot for me.”

Shoplifting soared in many counties in 2015, with Los Angeles and San Bernardino seeing the most dramatic increases. But then it dropped statewide over the next two years, falling to its lowest level in a decade.

To head off a frontal assault on Proposition 47, legislators created a new category of crime, “organized retail theft.” That new law, signed by Gov. Jerry Brown in September, allows prosecutors to charge shoplifting as a felony if two or more people act together to steal.

The bill’s author, Assemblyman Reggie Jones-Sawyer (D-Los Angeles) said its aim was to crack down on organized shoplifting rings without retreating from the reforms or criminalizing people who are stealing because they are hungry, homeless or addicted.

Assemblyman Cooper, the Proposition 47 critic, said it would do little to curb shoplifting because it places too high a burden on prosecutors to prove a conspiracy.

In San Joaquin County, which has long had one of the state’s highest crimes rates, property crimes have fallen by 25% since 2011. In 2017, it saw the lowest number of shoplifting reports in 15 years.

When Eric Jones, chief of police in Stockton, the San Joaquin County seat, first saw the local numbers drop, he worried fewer people were reporting crimes to police. The department double-checked the figures by looking at auto thefts — a crime that’s nearly always reported — to verify their data.

He said he’d been skeptical when realignment and Proposition 47 went into effect.

“I was concerned when those passed about the impact those were going to have on my community,” Jones said. “Would crime go up? And it’s just not that simple. I mean, look at our county — we’ve seen some success.”
 
Jesus this is some mission impossible level crime here only to be narced out

https://www.modbee.com/news/nation-...16zLgxxZ9VF8c8IK7EvKsb7NSVhMJYmim5BkMaw9TnRrk


In what Tulsa Police call a “well thought out crime,” thieves stole 18 rifles from an Oklahoma pawn shop, NewsOn6 reported.

“This wasn’t an easy crime,” Officer Jeanne Pierce said, according to NewsOn6.

The crime was set into motion on Dec. 21 when the shop’s telephone lines were cut — thus disabling the alarms, FOX23 reported. The backup alarm system either didn’t go off, or it wasn’t set.

Then, sometime between Dec. 24 and the morning of Dec. 26, someone cut a hole through the roof of Second Hand Rose Pawn Shop, the Tulsa World reported.



With that opening, at least one thief rappelled into the building, police said, according to the newspaper. That was Joshua Pickett, police said, according to NewsOn6.

“These individuals really planned this out, to scale the side of the building, cut a hole in the roof and to know it dropped down into the attic and that you could get into the store from the attic,” Pierce said, according to KJRH.

“No doors were ever opened so we think they went in and out the same way, through the ceiling,” Pierce said, according to KJRH.

Police said about 18 rifles were stolen, according to the Tulsa World. Ten to 12 of those were “assault-style rifles,” police said, including AR-15s and AK-47s. Four stolen rifles have not been found, the newspaper reported.

Tulsa officers learned about the crime after an anonymous tip, NewsOn6 reported.

Since then, officers arrested Pickett, 44, in connection to the crime, the Tulsa World reported. He has not cooperated with investigators, the newspaper reported, and detectives believe others were involved.

Booking reports show that Pickett was arrested on suspicion of possession of a firearm and stolen property under $1,000. He is being held on a $25,000 bond.
 
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