War Room Lounge v190: Resolution Impossible

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The Diplomat said:
Interesting choice of words.

So are you in favor or shrinking the economy? Nothing to do with this conversation, but "throwing it down the drain would help a little" sounds odd. What's the rationale for that?
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Well, people would presumably go get it. And we'd borrow to do it. I'm in favor of growing the economy, and with interest rates at 0, very high unemployment, and no signs of inflation, the obvious way to do it is more gov't spending and lower money going to the gov't. Basically anything but giveaways to the rich that involves spending and/or gov't revenue reductions is good now. Obviously some things are better than others, and I don't think student loan forgiveness is ideal but it is better than your plan (or plans if you count dumping it down the train and not doing loan forgiveness).
 
Jack V Savage said:
Well, people would presumably go get it. And we'd borrow to do it. I'm in favor of growing the economy, and with interest rates at 0, very high unemployment, and no signs of inflation, the obvious way to do it is more gov't spending and lower money going to the gov't. Basically anything but giveaways to the rich that involves spending and/or gov't revenue reductions is good now. Obviously some things are better than others, and I don't think student loan forgiveness is ideal but it is better than your plan (or plans if you count dumping it down the train and not doing loan forgiveness).
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I never gave a plan, though. I was just spitballing and asking questions. I said we'd lose money, and the only way to make it up would be to raise revenue elsewhere. But if the plan is the just lose it for the sake of the short term boost to the economy, then that's the impasse.

Atleast we're pretty much both in agreement that student loan forgiveness isn't ideal (economically), and we'd lose money with it, but we'd both like to see it happen - I just have more issues with it than you do. The short term boost to the economy would be great, but I'm not *sure* if it would last as long as it would take for the government to recoup the 1.5 trillion. This is ontop of other policies and agendas that would need increased taxation/revenue.
 
The Diplomat said:
I never gave a plan, though. I was just spitballing and asking questions. I said we'd lose money, and the only way to make it up would be to raise revenue elsewhere. But if the plan is the just lose it for the sake of the short term boost to the economy, then that's the impasse.

Atleast we're pretty much both in agreement that student loan forgiveness isn't ideal (economically), and we'd lose money with it, but we'd both like to see it happen - I just have more issues with it than you do. The short term boost to the economy would be great, but I'm not *sure* if it would last as long as it would take for the government to recoup the 1.5 trillion. This is ontop of other policies and agendas that would need increased taxation/revenue.
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The framing of "losing it" is wrong. We're talking about the country. It actually creates it from that perspective. A short-term boost is short-term. It's not designed to last.

Think of Keynes' most misunderstood quote:

In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if, in tempestuous seasons, they can only tell us that when the storm is long past the ocean is flat again.
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He's pushing back on the idea that eventually we'll recover. What we have is a coordination problem that is short-term in nature, and it's fixable with short-term action. Most of the time, there isn't much the gov't in a developed country can do to boost growth but in a moment like this, good policy can accelerate the recovery and get back to normal, at which point, the gov't can step away again.
 
Jack V Savage said:
The framing of "losing it" is wrong. We're talking about the country. It actually creates it from that perspective. A short-term boost is short-term. It's not designed to last.

Think of Keynes' most misunderstood quote:



He's pushing back on the idea that eventually we'll recover. What we have is a coordination problem that is short-term in nature, and it's fixable with short-term action. Most of the time, there isn't much the gov't in a developed country can do to boost growth but in a moment like this, good policy can accelerate the recovery and get back to normal, at which point, the gov't can step away again.
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I’ve never seen someone use that quote differently. Do people really use it to argue something else?
 
Lead said:
I’ve never seen someone use that quote differently. Do people really use it to argue something else?
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Yeah, I've seen a lot of rightists use it to argue that he didn't care about the future and that others shouldn't either. They usually cut it off after the first line.
 
Sketch said:
why do you think this stands out? I'm curious
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I mean, I'm years removed from the Cuban revolution and I'm sure @Trotsky is more versed than I. IMO Che was a solid revolutionary, Fidel should have relinquished control after a democratic period.

I destroyed some fat fuck tonight who was a "Libertarian" when I explained the history of Libertarianism and tried to argue with me about the history of that movement. I always say, you can accuse my support of certain violent movements in being wrong ideologically, but you can never attack me historically.

Fidel should have relinquished control of Cuba absolutely, Despite all the stupid fucking things people say about Anarchists, Democracy is the key. I've considered making a big thread about the Libertarian movement and its connections to Anarchism but man.. this fucking forum... these dudes don't even consider the Proud Boys a crew. We're living in wild times bruh.

Jesus H. Sherdog said:
Every time I go to Target I think anyone wearing red works there. I need to remember some of them are just people like @Sketch
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Try having a mohawk dropping into Hot Topic on a Tuesday nigght because some chunky goth girl stretched out a Ramones shirt.
 
The Diplomat said:
I never said I opposed it. I said that money would be lost.
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For who though dude, Billionaires are making money from societal suffering. They don't pay taxes, yet us taxpayers subsidize them. That's a fucking fact. Elon Cunt is out here firing employees over Covid, he's saying no more government assistance to stop the spread of this virus, yet he has made BILLIONS from this virus. Billions, he's also not going to pay taxes thanks to Trump.

Trump did a small tax deferment to look good while he was in office, but all the lower class who received a tiny cut will repay that tenfold according to that plan.

Meanwhile Trump raped our environment, put oil and coal in charge of the EPA and the biggest exploitative cunt who steals from fucking children (Betsy DeVos) in charge of our education.

Trump supporters say he's not a warmonger, yet signed off on rape squads in Northern Iraq and Syria, allowed NK to expand their arsenal, Russia has been going fucking ham. Trump supporters say that he's not a warmonger! yet he's deployed more troops, he allowed the rape (liveleak it. Turkish militias are using gangrape and extreme torture to stop feminist Kurds from fighting back, as well as Turkish firebombs causing mass evacuations.

There isn't any fucking money to be lost dude. Our money goes to terrorism. That's all it goes to. The pockets of the rich while children tug on the sleeves of their dead parents. That's where our money goes.

It's about fucking time our money goes to us. The benefit of every citizen isn't a fucking partisan issue. Watch us though dude.. my brothers and sisters in the DSA... we're taking over.
 
AgonyandIrony said:
For who though dude, Billionaires are making money from societal suffering. They don't pay taxes, yet us taxpayers subsidize them. That's a fucking fact. Elon Cunt is out here firing employees over Covid, he's saying no more government assistance to stop the spread of this virus, yet he has made BILLIONS from this virus. Billions, he's also not going to pay taxes thanks to Trump.

Trump did a small tax deferment to look good while he was in office, but all the lower class who received a tiny cut will repay that tenfold according to that plan.

Meanwhile Trump raped our environment, put oil and coal in charge of the EPA and the biggest exploitative cunt who steals from fucking children (Betsy DeVos) in charge of our education.

Trump supporters say he's not a warmonger, yet signed off on rape squads in Northern Iraq and Syria, allowed NK to expand their arsenal, Russia has been going fucking ham. Trump supporters say that he's not a warmonger! yet he's deployed more troops, he allowed the rape (liveleak it. Turkish militias are using gangrape and extreme torture to stop feminist Kurds from fighting back, as well as Turkish firebombs causing mass evacuations.

There isn't any fucking money to be lost dude. Our money goes to terrorism. That's all it goes to. The pockets of the rich while children tug on the sleeves of their dead parents. That's where our money goes.

It's about fucking time our money goes to us. The benefit of every citizen isn't a fucking partisan issue. Watch us though dude.. my brothers and sisters in the DSA... we're taking over.
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In this situation, it would be the federal government taking the loss. But it's not like they'd be giving 'any more' extra money to anyone, it's just that those with student loans wouldn't have to pay them back, so they could use that money elsewhere. Good stuff, but it amounts to $1.5 trillion dollars, and while circulating it back into the economy is great, it's still a projected loss of revenue for the US government. If they're able to withstand it without any clauses/catches, then more power to it. But I'd still feel like any further progressive goals would be stifled at the same time.
 
The Diplomat said:
In this situation, it would be the federal government taking the loss. But it's not like they'd be giving 'any more' extra money to anyone, it's just that those with student loans wouldn't have to pay them back, so they could use that money elsewhere. Good stuff, but it amounts to $1.5 trillion dollars, and while circulating it back into the economy is great, it's still a projected loss of revenue for the US government. If they're able to withstand it without any clauses/catches, then more power to it. But I'd still feel like any further progressive goals would be stifled at the same time.
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When. The. Fuck. Has the federal government ever taken a loss? The US is built on the exploitation of the working class. Our money has been used to kill people around the world. It's ours.

Do you have any idea how good it is we're finally burning shit down? We have posters here from St Louis... All of US history has come from rioting.

Think about the cost of the bomb that murdered all those children in Yemen, think about where that money could have gone. Our taxes go to murder, genocide, and terrorism. But hey man! Universal healthcare is too much!
 
any Linuxers here

just installed Arcolinux latest release ( arcolinux-v20.11.9-x86_64 ) and when I use 'ping' command it takes 5 secs exactly to return each result. This is when I use domain name. When I use IP the 'ping' works fine. So I guess this is related to DNS issue. I am not that well versed in in depth networking and have never encountered a ping taking as long as 5 secs per result return.

I realize I am not providing enough details but does anyone maybe have a guess or can point to me some possible explanations?
 
Sara said:
I’ve only seen the rainmaker, a time to kill and the client, I need to see the others. I mean with all the remakes getting made someone needs to start making more John Grisham movies lol


I’d watch another Lincoln lawyer movie too.
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Runaway Jury is a very good one. I highly recommend it.
 
BEER said:
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I mean I feel like maybe Melania would not be the one washing his feet.....she may be the one stabbing him in the side............this is based purely on the the constant rumours of her leaving as soon as he is out of office, renegotiating her prenup, and the fact that she seems to hate him when he tries to hold her hand, the alleged body double for appearances, etc.
 
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