Wanderlei Silva and CroCops lack of success in the UFC?

[tramendous]

Cro cop got ruined by lack of cage experience and the Gonzaga KO.

Wand had already been brutally knocked out twice in his last 2 PRIDE fights by Cro Cop and Hendo respectively so he was definitely damaged by the time he got to UFC then he had that brutal war with Chuck and got KO'd by Rampage. Different rules like no soccer kicks also had an effect.

 

[RiotWyatt]

Wand had two heavy KO losses right before he came to the UFC, and a long career before that.

lol @ you ignoring that.

Add to that the sentiment going into the Chuck fight was that it was too little too late. Both guys were already well past their prime.

What's with these revisionists, amirite?

 

[mjfan23]

Mileage? I mean wand was murked by mirko and hendo before coming to ufc. The hardest puncher and kickers in the game.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Chuck and Anderson both had a winning record in PRIDE though.

Cro Cop and Wanderlei both had losing records in the UFC.

They were all right around .500.

The real difference that you don't want to admit? Chuck and Anderson high-tailed it out of there after getting embarrassed dead in the middle of their primes. Meanwhile, Wandy and Mirko were fighting well past their prime.

 

[Gandulf]

I know that fighting in the cage offers different challenges than in a ring. But Wanderlei and CroCop had great success in Pride fc and they both failed terribly in the UFC. To me the epic difference in performance shows that there maybe other reasons.

I know people will say that CroCop was over the hill, similar to Fedors fall from grace in the cage. But Silva fought in the UFC when he was far from being over the hill, albeit abit relatively new to the game.

Wand had like 40 fights before he came to the UFC, and that's not even counting the unsanctioned and kickboxing bouts he had...

 

[laleggenda27]

People like TS like to cherry-pick the records of certain Pride fighters after the merger in 2007, but they conveniently fail to mention the records of the UFC contemporaries. How did guys like Chuck, Tito, Timmeh, Hughes, Randy, and Arlovski do after 2007?

 

[OldBoy91]

They were all right around .500.

The real difference that you don't want to admit? Chuck and Anderson high-tailed it out of there after getting embarrassed dead in the middle of their primes. Meanwhile, Wandy and Mirko were fighting well past their prime.

Fun fact. Chuck was already older when he fought Reem and Rampage than both Cro Cop and Wand were when they came over and lost all their UFC fights.

Also older than Frodo was when he started getting flatlined by 185ers.

 

[snugglecakes]

cause cro cop was a light heavyweight 220 lbs betaboi in a world of monsters who cut weight to make 265. Over in pride the heavyweight division was just other sub 230 pound cruiser weight is loser weight beta manlets as well...with a side order of people as light as WW fighting at HW. As soon as mirko came to the USA where not everybody is a fairy like him, his under size for the division showed n he got man handled.

Decent fighter tho...just another victim of the inbetweener size range.. too small for HW (unless the division is garbage) and too big for LHW

 

[tomjones]

Wand had like 40 fights before he came to the UFC, and that's not even counting the unsanctioned and kickboxing bouts he had...

He fought Vitor in 1998 and Tito in 2000.

 

[L0ki]

CC came in way too arrogant.

He already said he was going to "become Champion, beat Fedor in Japan, then retire". Looking past all his ops.

CC avenging the MBP loss was huge. That was arguably the biggest loss of his career and he avenged it.


Wand did good. He lost to Chuck but beat the guy that beat Chuck in his next fight.

He beat Cung, Stann and Bisping, who were all ranked top 10. Ping was top 5 at the time.

The Leben loss was tough, so it was good he beat Bisping (who had recently beaten Leben). I do think Wand Franklin II.....the fight could've easily been stopped in the 2nd round without much controversy.

 

[Trabaho]

well Mirko murked Wand before he went to the UFC, that sure put him out his prime for at least 30%. Mirko accumulated injuries and damage from like 80 fights boxing k1 mma and there are no gimme freak fights vs undersized japanese in the UFC. So a combination of all. It´s like saying why did Fedor go on a 3 loss streak in Strikeforce. the moment of decline or losses can come also right when you change a org, can be a coincidence.

Also since Pride doesn´t test, could guys there just do like speed before a fight and pain numbers .

 

[Choco]

Chuck and Anderson both had a winning record in PRIDE though.

Cro Cop and Wanderlei both had losing records in the UFC.

"Winning record" means chit when you get cut the second you lose.

For a phenomenon like Ando his performance (With the exception of the Carlos Newton fight) in PRIDE was wanting, taking into account the steady diet of undersized meh Japanese guys (The ones that he managed lost to), that monumental can Okutsa and Stiebling, the man that managed to lose to Akira Shoji). That has nothing to do with the level of the promotions (PRIDE didn't really care about the smaller divisions until 2005, an even then not that much, and gave Ando winable fights only), but his dificulties at the time to cope with pressure and propensity to crumble when faced by problems.

Prime Chuck being toyed with, and destroyed by Page, a guy that wasn't able to reach true glory in PRIDE despite multiple opportunities, sent a message to the World. The faces of the heralded UFC LHW divison (The other being Randy, succeding in the UFC, trying Japan and sent back home three times with his ass kicked by not real top competition) cannot hack Japan. The real deal are the Aronas, Rampages and Wandys. Maybe we read too much into it back in the day, but wasn't a good look.

 

[Poatan Power]

Wanderlei is 47, Mirko 49, Rua (related) is 42.

Wanderlei was peak 2002-2003, maybe 2004. Came to the UFC when he was on the downward slide of his career, imho.

Rua lasted a little longer since he was 5 years younger and hit the top of the UFC before Jones.

CroCop, same story as Wandy.

Mileage matters.

So do PED's.

 

[NoSmilez]

It is steroids and mileage.

 

[Smato_rules]

Wand was showing considerable decline before he went to the ufc. Crocop was a weird one. The lack of corners definitely changed things, but he still shouldn’t have lost to the fighters he did, ring or cage

 

[Yellowcrab]

The real difference that you don't want to admit? Chuck and Anderson high-tailed it out of there after getting embarrassed dead in the middle of their primes. Meanwhile, Wandy and Mirko were fighting well past their prime.

That's why Mirko started to win again once out of the UFC.

The real difference, like you said, is that once out of the japanese circus show, Anderson started to perform, likely because he didn't abuse products as much as the other ones.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

A combination of ring and also the fact that Wandy and Cro Cop had full careers in the PRIDE and other orgs. It would be like GSP going on his full UFC run and then asking him to go over to PFL and dominate for another 5-10 years. That just doesn't happen.

 

[welcometohavoc]

It’s because a significant amount of their fights in PRIDE were favorable mismatches.

It's true that there were alot of can fights, but he also beat top guys like Sakuraba, Arona, Rampage, Hendo, KT, Kondo, Fujita

People forget that Wandy was on a two fight losing streak before he even got to UFC. The reality is he trained at a gym that was notorious for sparring full blast, on top of having a ton of mileage on him from years of Vale Tudo fights. The dude was in the twilight of his career when he got to the UFC and still managed to have some decent wins (Bisping, Stann, Cung Le)

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

cage, too many battles, nerves, done it all syndrome

 

[markantony20]

Could be a number of reasons but for Wandi at least the Chute Boxe sparring sessions probably didn’t help.

But at least CroCop went out on a bunch of wins.