Social Waco on Netflix

[second sight]

Watch the series, really well done and as accurate as I think it could have been made.

Just finished a binge of it, it made me sick when it happened and its even worse now.

Not even sure what to say about the FBI and the ATF's part in this, they did make it seem as though janet reno and clinton weren't culpable....not sure I'm buying that. I seem to remember much more involvement by reno.

Also was it HRT? as the other law enforcement group, I am not familiar with that branch of thugs

 

[hillelslovak87]

It was Koresh who started the fires, not the ATF APCs with flamethrowers.

True story.

 

[Lord Coke]

It was Koresh who started the fires, not the ATF APCs with flamethrowers.

True story.

Or did the smoke grenades used by the ATF what started the fire?

 

[Trotsky]

It was Koresh who started the fires, not the ATF APCs with flamethrowers.

True story.

No idea how much proof of that exists, but the fact that the series set out to make a grounded antihero out of a child marrying polygamist zealot who used religion to gain sexual access to women and live out a god complex is pretty gross.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Or did the smoke grenades used by the ATF what started the fire?

I don't know if the smoke grenades caused a fire (doesn't exactly sound unlikely), but the ATF had flamethrowers on APCs just nailing the building.

(I don't know anything about the documentary this is from, or it's greater position, but the video seems obvious enough)

No idea how much proof of that exists, but the fact that the series set out to make a grounded antihero out of a child marrying polygamist zealot who used religion to gain sexual access to women and live out a god complex is pretty gross.

Yeah, it was an absolutely insane situation all around. Koresh was an absolute megalomaniac at heart, and a vicious piece of trash. On the other end, the government, specifically the FBI and ATF, prosecuted their raid in a fashion that seems like something from the times of the Roman Empire, simply laying waste to those they claimed needed protection.

I mean, they start a fire upstairs with grenades, then use tanks (or APCs, whatever) to rail holes into the building, followed with flamethrowers. There aren't really words for that type of insanity.

 

[Limbo Pete]

No idea how much proof of that exists, but the fact that the series set out to make a grounded antihero out of a child marrying polygamist zealot who used religion to gain sexual access to women and live out a god complex is pretty gross.

 

[Limbo Pete]

I found a copy of the official FBI report on Waco at a garage sale years ago. Even taking it with the large grain of salt that the FBI probably left a bunch of shit out, the details are awful and damning all around. There's a part where it describes one area of the house as having so many spent shell casings there were bodies completely buried beneath them. Koresh was a monstrous sack of human garbage that had sex with children, and he should never ever be made sympathetic in any way. You really don't need to do that in order to also understand that the feds completely botched the whole thing from top to bottom. I mean, so fucking bad. Some fucking genius actually thought it was a good idea to play into the crazy religious fantasies while negotiating, and they claimed to actually have the "seven seals" or whatever biblical nonsense the Davidians were rambling about. The Davidians, of course, took this as a validation of their insanity, and the siege deepened.
Absolute clusterfuck.

 

[Sakurabaism]

More like Wacko amirite fellas? cuz yknow, religious nuts and all that...

 

[Darkballs]

Also was it HRT? as the other law enforcement group, I am not familiar with that branch of thugs

The Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) is a branch of the FBI. Essentially SWAT, although FBI field offices have their own SWAT teams, to make it a bit more confusing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostage_Rescue_Team

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Entertaining series but Koresh was a wack job. Now you’re gonna have people believing he was somehow in the right.

I bought Gary Noseners book (the head Negotiator). Hopefully is good.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

No idea how much proof of that exists, but the fact that the series set out to make a grounded antihero out of a child marrying polygamist zealot who used religion to gain sexual access to women and live out a god complex is pretty gross.

Agreed and there is a HUGE contrast from the first two episodes then in the 3rd episode multiple people having automatic weapons returning fire immediately. These people weren't just sitting in the chapel all day.

 

[Javelina]

there are some pretty good docs out there on this. i don't think either side is pure

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I watched it, I enjoyed it. Well done and well acted. But I have mixed feelings on how favorably it portrayed Koresh.

Ignoring that Koresh was a cult leader nut, the ATF and US government should still take a majority share of the clusterfuck that was the actual siege.

 

[Mr Holmes]

I watched it. Thought it was pretty good, but they didn't pay enough attention to Koresh being a pedophile. He was knocking up 12yo girls. The government absolutely had a right to try to take them down.

 

[HereticBD]

Now you’re gonna have people believing he was somehow in the right.

Now?

 

[Dirt Road Soldier]

I watched it. Thought it was pretty good, but they didn't pay enough attention to Koresh being a pedophile. He was knocking up 12yo girls. The government absolutely had a right to try to take them down.

Considering how badly they botched everything, the government would have been better off just bringing in an AC-130 and just blasting the place to hell. If you are gonna get everyone inside killed and then take no blame in it, may as well do it in style.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Considering how badly they botched everything, the government would have been better off just bringing in an AC-130 and just blasting the place to hell. If you are gonna get everyone inside killed and then take no blame in it, may as well do it in style.

Oh yeah, I don't disagree that the government fucked up. The Netflix series was just a little too one sided IMO.

 

[Trotsky]

I feel similarly about the hyped new series about Phyllis Schlafly. They apparently try to make her out as this House of Cards-ian Machiavellian antihero badass, when in reality she was a emotionally shallow moron who appealed to other emotionally shallow morons and, by mere virtue of having a vagina, played some part in keeping feminists from monopolizing the conversation as to whether women deserved to be treated like human beings.

Like....is this how it's going to be in 20 years when there's a movie about Trump? Is he going to be depicted as a conniving secret genius instead of being, as anyone remotely familiar with him knows him to be, a blubbering man child?

We need to be satisfied with the fact that a lot of people are just pathetic, insecure, self-serving pieces of shit.

 

[jonharrison]

The series seemed to accurately portray the failures from a tactical and strategic perspective by the FBI and ATF at Ruby Ridge and Waco, but really failed in its portrayal of the Branch Davidians. The apocalyptic nature of the whole ‘Seven Seals’ wasn’t really delved into, because that creates the murkiness of whether a mass suicide was the eventual goal or not. The Branch Davidians absolutely believed that it was the end of the world, and independent research done by the University of Maryland showed there was plenty of time before the fires spread where everyone in the compound could have gotten out with minimal trouble. Instead they stayed inside, and executed at least twenty members, including children. As far as the fires being started by the pyrotechnic rounds, the show does a horrible job of portraying what actually happened. The fires started nearly four hours after any of the pyrotechnics were fired, and subsequent reviews of the audio captured by bugs at the compound show members of the Branch Davidians talking about laying out fuel and starting fires after the tear gas, but prior to the actual fires themselves. Once again, it’s good for law enforcement to be held accountable when they make mistakes, and the series thoroughly covers the governments failures. It doesn’t go into nearly enough depth, though, on how well armed the Davidians were, how Koresh and his followers had taken over leadership of the sect through a gunfight with the previous group of Davidians, the timeline of the pyrotechnic deployment and fires, and how there’s audio of the Branch Davidians starting fires and executing their own members. Overall it’s a biased series trying to sell one particular viewpoint, not a portrayal of a very complex situation.

 

[second sight]

Oh yeah, I don't disagree that the government fucked up. The Netflix series was just a little too one sided IMO.

one sided? 70 plus people not named David Koresh died for no reason at the hands of an overzealous militarized government, there is no way around that.

at the time it happened the people in Waco said if they wanted to arrest David he drove into town once a week by himself. there was NO need for any of that BS