Vegetarian?

Sorry, I just glanced at your post without reading the article.

Also, you have to eat a huge amount of soy to produce the negative estrogenic effects as discribed above. Omnivore's should add a little soy to their diets.
 
Im also looking to go vegetarian, i was for a while, and personally i felt alot healthier, tho im more than positive my diet sucked. So this time im going to try it properly, with protein supplements and possible meal replacements because its hard to get food while at school, so is this a good or bad idea?

i was thinking of getting; http://www.discount-supplements.co.uk/eshop/protein/maximuscle-promax-extreme-(2lbs)-banana.asp a rough calculation shows that this will give give 10 daily servings, which kind of sucks for the price, so could anyone recommend anything better?

and; http://www.discount-supplements.co.uk/eshop/mrps/met-rx-mrp-(20-sachets)-variety.asp 20 sachets, which isnt too bad (Works out to about
 
King Kabuki said:
Keep this in mind, and hopefully the book Mick recommended states this:

The ONLY source of a COMPLETE protein with all essential aminos is meat. Otherwise you must supplement correctly for good muscle structure and metabolic processing. To get a complete protein, Soy is not enough. Neither is dairy alone, but a combination of Soy, dairy, and legumes will do the trick. And these are needed multiple times a day for ample nutrition.

I have this discussion a lot because I have a lot of vegetarian and vegan customers who report fatigue, lack of ability to gain muscle mass, excess bodyfat storage, etc. And the main cause of it is the misconception that you can substitute this nutrient source for that, regardless of the origin of the two sources. This is simply not true, and leads to health complications such as weakened immune system, digestive difficulties, etc.
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You must be confused, K, because dairy and eggs are also "complete" proteins (containing all 8 essential amino acids). Vegans are the ones who must be concerned with getting the essential amino acids and B Vitamins since they do not consume dairy. It's the vegetables where you have to mix and match. From AllReferenceHealth:

All meat and other animal products are sources of complete proteins. These include beef, lamb, pork, poultry, fish, shellfish, eggs, milk, and milk products.

Protein in foods (such as grains, fruits, and vegetables) are either low, incomplete protein or lack one of the essential amino acids. These food sources are considered incomplete proteins.

Plant proteins can be combined to include all of the essential amino acids and form a complete protein. Examples of combined, complete plant proteins are rice and beans, milk and wheat cereal, and corn and beans.
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And an interesting related blurb from Wikipedia:

Foodstuffs that lack essential amino acids are poor sources of protein equivalents, as the body tends to deaminate the amino acids obtained, converting proteins into fats and carbohydrates. Therefore, a balance of essential amino acids is necessary for a high degree of net protein utilization, which is the mass ratio of amino acids converted to proteins to amino acids supplied.

The net protein utilization is profoundly affected by the limiting amino acid content (the essential amino acid found in the smallest quantity in the foodstuff), and somewhat affected by salvage of essential amino acids in the body. It is therefore a good idea to mix foodstuffs that have different weaknesses in their essential amino acid distributions. This limits the loss of nitrogen through deamination and increases overall net protein utilization.
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And in yet another related article from Wikipedia on the protein tests and their relevancy:

Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) is a method of evaluating the protein quality based on the amino acid requirements of humans. The PDCAAS rating is a fairly recent evaluation method (it was adopted by the US Food and Drug Administration in 1993) and emerged due to weaknesses in earlier evaluations of protein quality, such as the Protein Efficiency Ratio (PER) and the Biological Value (BV).

A PDCAAS value of 1 is the highest, and 0 the lowest. Some ratings of commons foods include soy (1.0), egg white (1.0), casein (1.0), milk (1.0), whey (1.0), beef (0.92), kidney beans (0.68), lentils (0.52), peanuts (0.52), wheat (0.25).

Advantages
The PDCAAS is superior to both the PER and the BV. The PER was based upon the amino acid requirements of growing rats, which are noticeably different to that of humans. The BV uses nitrogen absorption as a basis. However, it does not take into account certain factors influencing the digestion of the protein.
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SuperCubsFan said:
A few months ago I became a vegetarian and have picked up my training alot the past few weeks. I know absolutly nothing about supplements and wanted to know if anyone could point me in the right direction. I guess the big thing is to get protein, but is there anything else I should try to fulfill through supplements because I don't eat meat?


Sorry if this is a bad thread that I could have fulfilled with a FAQ somewhere. If you have any problems with it feel free to send it to the wastland.


Thanks for your help!
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Im planning to become a vegetarian. Did you eat alot of meat before you became a vegeterian & was it hard to turn down meat?
 
phenomfan1529 said:
Im planning to become a vegetarian. Did you eat alot of meat before you became a vegeterian & was it hard to turn down meat?
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It's hard for the 2-6 months. Then it's like you were always that way.
 
I ate an absurd amount of meat before I became a vegetarian. It just wasn't working for me, so I cut it out to lose some weight and I have stuck with it since then. After a while some meat doesn't even look or smell appetizing.
 
Hate to be kind of a thread hi-jacker but to any one that has done the whole Ovo-lacto and also a non vegetarian diet ( that
 
Madmick said:
It's hard for the 2-6 months. Then it's like you were always that way.
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thanks bro, just started yesterday. doesnt seem that bad yet :D
 
I have had no problems since starting. It's alot easier than I thought it would be.
 
Muntant said:
Hate to be kind of a thread hi-jacker but to any one that has done the whole Ovo-lacto and also a non vegetarian diet ( that
Click to expand...
 
I'm not sure where all these rumors start (a guess: the meat industry), but they're completely unfounded.
1. Soy is not an estrogen, so you won't grow breasticles or start sounding like Mark Kerr (i know, that's from steroids, and his body upped his estrogen to keep up. Still):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11880595&dopt=Citation
2. Soy IS a complete protein:
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html
3. Vegetarians have at LEAST as good of endurance as meat eaters:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/3/570S

Okay, so these are all scientific studies. No, "my buddy billy said vegans have to drink their own piss to get essential 'folic phyto-stearo-cholciferols'," or "guys that go vegan have to start shopping at Dolce & Gabana OR THEY DIE" type crap. Flame it all you want because you like the taste of meat, or are too lazy to care, or habit, or whatever, but don't just make up crap please. Thanks.
 
galathrax said:
I'm not sure where all these rumors start (a guess: the meat industry), but they're completely unfounded.
1. Soy is not an estrogen, so you won't grow breasticles or start sounding like Mark Kerr (i know, that's from steroids, and his body upped his estrogen to keep up. Still):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11880595&dopt=Citation
2. Soy IS a complete protein:
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html
3. Vegetarians have at LEAST as good of endurance as meat eaters:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/3/570S

Okay, so these are all scientific studies. No, "my buddy billy said vegans have to drink their own piss to get essential 'folic phyto-stearo-cholciferols'," or "guys that go vegan have to start shopping at Dolce & Gabana OR THEY DIE" type crap. Flame it all you want because you like the taste of meat, or are too lazy to care, or habit, or whatever, but don't just make up crap please. Thanks.
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I'd always read vegetarians have better endurance (but I always assumed that was related to the fact most vegetarians choose healthier lifestyles).

As for soy, yes, I agree it won't give you gynecomastia, but Terumo posted in the Rating the Supplement thread that soy powders (not soy foods) have made people's eyes bleed in some studies.
 
I tried the vegetarian diet for about 3 months and i couldnt stand it, i felt really hungry all the time, and it sucked at dinner time becasue my parents always have a steak as the main part of the meal. I dont work and study, so i can't really afford to buy all this tofu,soymilk, i just have to accept what is on my plate. But its somthing i want to look into when i start working. Ive been told that eating a healthy vegetarian diet actually cleans out all your bowls and system
 
Madmick said:
Terumo posted in the Rating the Supplement thread that soy powders (not soy foods) have made people's eyes bleed in some studies.
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I have read where an extremely high tofu consumption drasticaly increases your chances of having alzheimers. But who really eats more than a pound of tofu everyday? Point being that you should still eat soy, BUT, in moderation just like everything else.
 
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