Usyk vs Wlad, Vitali, and Lennox?

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There's been a lot of talk about Usyk's standing in the historical books of boxing after his most recent victory. But I just want to caution that we should take a moment to acknowledge that recency bias is a very real and powerful phenomenon.

Take a moment to think about the previous generation of greats such as Wlad and Vitali Klitschko, And Lennox Lewis. Would you favor Usyk to best any of those guys?
 
Seahawks Fan said:
There's been a lot of talk about Usyk's standing in the historical books of boxing after his most recent victory. But I just want to caution that we should take a moment to acknowledge that recency bias is a very real and powerful phenomenon.

Take a moment to think about the previous generation of greats such as Wlad and Vitali Klitschko, And Lennox Lewis. Would you favor Usyk to best any of those guys?
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Tone of your post seems to be that he'd be outclassed. Don't really agree. Pretty even vs the Klits, would give him about 25% vs Lewis.

Nostalgia bias is probably greater than recency bias when it comes to sport, imo.
 
Seahawks Fan said:
There's been a lot of talk about Usyk's standing in the historical books of boxing after his most recent victory. But I just want to caution that we should take a moment to acknowledge that recency bias is a very real and powerful phenomenon.

Take a moment to think about the previous generation of greats such as Wlad and Vitali Klitschko, And Lennox Lewis. Would you favor Usyk to best any of those guys?
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He wouldn't need to best them to be greater than them. You're forgetting that Usyk has a legacy at cruiserweight also. He's a P4P great.
 
Doctor Grudge said:
He wouldn't need to best them to be greater than them. You're forgetting that Usyk has a legacy at cruiserweight also. He's a P4P great.
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Yeah, that's true of many great HWs though. Ali, Louis, Marciano, Holyfield and a lot of others could have fought that weight (or even lighter, Marciano was 185, Louis about 200). Ali and Holyfield both fought under HW as amateurs.

I think the truth is that this is a weak generation of HW boxers. Just looking at the age of the champion makes that painfully clear.

No, Usyk mostly would not have been the undisputed champion in the past because there was almost always at least one fighter that was better.
 
Vitali beats Usyk, too much length.

With Lennox it depends which Lennox shows up. He had a tendency to pick the wrong strategy. But at his best he was a considerably better fighter than Joshua, Dubois and today's version of Fury. I can see Usyk losing a boring fencing type of match.

Wladimir... IMO he enjoyed having a lot of his opponents playing by his rules by boxing in his backyard. I feel like he'd lose plenty of fights if he's not allowed to clinch at will.
Just compare his clinch fest against Povetkin when he was champion opposed to his fight against Joshua when he was a challenger in London.
 
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StopDucking said:
Tyson Fury has way more length than Vitali and look what happened to him.

The truth is most people thought Usyk would lose to Joshua and Fury because of their lengths and whatnot and he proved everybody wrong twice twice.
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Usyk is not a small HW by historical standards, at all.

He’d be the best win on Vitali’s record, comfortably, unless I’m forgetting anyone.

Honestly, Vitali is almost more of a “what if?”, as weird as that might sound. Think most would favour him vs Wlad, but his record is not as good, really.
 
Doctor Grudge said:
He wouldn't need to best them to be greater than them. You're forgetting that Usyk has a legacy at cruiserweight also. He's a P4P great.
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This P4P nonsense has made entire generations of combat sports fans stupid.

Usyk is a full 5 inches taller than Mike Tyson was, it's not like we have to go all the way back to Marciano to find HW champs who could have fought at CW.

Yes, Usyk is a relatively small HW, and he deserves immense credit for beating the bigger guys that have emerged in this era, but how do you get MORE credit for cutting down to fight smaller guys rather than fighting bigger guys the whole time? How does that make any sense?

Why does 16 wins at CW give you more of a legacy than winning 40+ fights at HW like the other guys who had no realistic option to chase 'P4P' greatness did?
 
i think he would would have only had trouble with Lewis, that would have been a great fight
 
joy2day said:
Yeah, that's true of many great HWs though. Ali, Louis, Marciano, Holyfield and a lot of others could have fought that weight (or even lighter, Marciano was 185, Louis about 200). Ali and Holyfield both fought under HW as amateurs.

I think the truth is that this is a weak generation of HW boxers. Just looking at the age of the champion makes that painfully clear.

No, Usyk mostly would not have been the undisputed champion in the past because there was almost always at least one fighter that was better.
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You do realize that Ali & Louis actually outweighed their opponents the majority of the time? For example, Louis was heavier than Schmeling in both of their fights. Since you mentioned the amateurs Usyk at 20 years old once fought at middleweight. That's why Fury calls him one. Then you brought up age but neglected to mention that Usyk is actually older than Fury, Joshua & Dubois. Do your research next time.
 
Kovalev's Man Bag said:
You do realize that Ali & Louis actually outweighed their opponents the majority of the time? For example, Louis was heavier than Schmeling in both of their fights. Since you mentioned the amateurs Usyk at 20 years old once fought at middleweight. That's why Fury calls him one. Then you brought up age but neglected to mention that Usyk is actually older than Fury, Joshua & Dubois. Do your research next time.
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And? There is absolutely nothing that refutes ANYTHING I said in your post.
 
LEWIS540 said:
Usyk is not a small HW by historical standards, at all.

He’d be the best win on Vitali’s record, comfortably, unless I’m forgetting anyone.

Honestly, Vitali is almost more of a “what if?”, as weird as that might sound. Think most would favour him vs Wlad, but his record is not as good, really.
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By historical standards all modern heavyweights are significantly bigger than they used to be. It isn't just Usyk. If we go back to what it was originally, 160+ lbs, then we have middleweights competing today that are larger. The heavyweight lower limit has increased 4 times throughout history (160+, 168+, 175+, 190+, 200+).
 
The question we should be asking is how many southpaws did the K-bros & Lewis fight in the pros? The only lefty that I recall Lewis ever fighting was Gorrell who was a journeyman. Vitali fought Byrd, Sanders, Gomez & Spinelli. He was up on the cards against Byrd before his corner retirement (torn rotator cuff) but was made to look quite bad in there throughout. Wlad fought Sanders, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Thompson & Byrd. He also fought Chambers who was a switch-hitter. With the exception of Sanders, who blew him out early, he managed to beat them all. Having said that, none of them were as skilled or durable as Usyk is. Reportedly Usyk got the better of Wlad in sparring but the latter was in his late 30s by that point.

The real answer here is that the K-bros never would've fought Usyk. Both of them said as much on national TV more than a decade ago. It isn't just because they're all Ukrainian either, they promote him. He was always going to sign with K2 Promotions after winning the Olympics. Usyk's been with them from day one. A fight with Lewis would've been interesting. I'd favor him over Usyk. He had the size & tools to win. His jab was effective, uppercuts were nasty, and his body work was equally as good when he used it. Lewis would need all 3 and he'd have to be physical in there.
 
Kovalev's Man Bag said:
He was up on the cards against Byrd before his corner retirement (torn rotator cuff) but was made to look quite bad in there throughout.
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Byrd is criminally underrated and he was defensively better than Usyk.

The real answer here is that the K-bros never would've fought Usyk. Both of them said as much on national TV more than a decade ago. It isn't just because they're all Ukrainian either, they promote him. He was always going to sign with K2 Promotions after winning the Olympics. Usyk's been with them from day one.
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This isn't relevant, it's just business. I don't have the impression that the Klitschko's and Usyk are that close anyway. Also 10 years ago Usyk wasn't what he is today. With all three in their prime/active, this would absolutely go down. They're not brothers lol
 
defjaam said:
Byrd is criminally underrated and he was defensively better than Usyk.

This isn't relevant, it's just business. I don't have the impression that the Klitschko's and Usyk are that close anyway. Also 10 years ago Usyk wasn't what he is today. With all three in their prime/active, this would absolutely go down. They're not brothers lol
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Byrd, who has been knocked out a bunch of times, is defensively better than Usyk? Okay. Yes, Usyk would be quick to fight his promoters even though both made it clear to the world that they'd never fight him.
 
It seems anyway that Alexander Krassyuk is the guy that's doing the promotional work at K2. But with money coming from the Saudis's these days, I don't even know how needed he is.

CEO type of guys like him and Eddie Hearn are more and more getting relegated to being usual employees.
 
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