USADA not doing enough to police IV ban

[TheRealMikeson]

Why?

What aspects of the game have really changed besides more pull outs? They need to either allow rehydration from IVs or stop allowing big dudes to cut so much weight. It’s not like they’re PEDs.

 

[Threetrees]

the point is, the iv is used to mask blood doping or to mess with urinary test results.

pure water in the iv can still be used to mask ped's

And its still a stupid ban

 

[thobra]

What aspects of the game have really changed besides more pull outs? They need to either allow rehydration from IVs or stop allowing big dudes to cut so much weight. It’s not like they’re PEDs.

What? Some very few might use IVs for rehydration, but the main use is to dillute bio passports, And flush out any trace of drugs. Also used for blood doping, that is impossible to Discover in any other way.

 

[MMAFAN2]

it shouldn't be banned.it effected performances of many fighters

 

[Draxton]

What aspects of the game have really changed besides more pull outs? They need to either allow rehydration from IVs or stop allowing big dudes to cut so much weight. It’s not like they’re PEDs.

They aren’t banned because of weight cutting, the main reason they are banned is because they are used to hide PED usage.

 

[ClosetVitorFan]

no, that test was scrapped years ago as a primary method of testing for transfusions.

the test looked at DEHP levels, dehp is a softener used in iv tubing, iv bags etc, but two problems. 1) most manufacturers are moving to DEHP free equipement because of health concerns, and 2) DEHP is in the environment all around us, its in drinks bottles, sandwich wrappers etc.

USADA do still monitor pthalate levels (dehp etc) but it cannot be used as the sole evidence in proving an athlete had an iv because of the environmental levels of pthalates.

but it could be used in conjunction with say, a video, or finding iv paraphernalia in a gym bin etc.



Heres something i wrote which gives some background into the test and why it was scrapped

https://taintedsupplements.wordpress.com/2017/06/27/whatever-happened-to-the-the-plasticizer-test/

Is dehp bad for us? I know bpa is bad. But I do drink from bpa free plastic quite often

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

So they ban something that has compelling legitimate uses in the sport but are banning it because it also has illegitimate uses? So fans get fights where people gas sooner so USADA can decide who to crack down on and who to go easy on?

What a mess. USADA offers nothing worthwhile to MMA.

 

[dim_]

it shouldn't be banned.it effected performances of many fighters

there is zero evidence of this. there are countless studies that show that oral rehydration is just as effective as iv rehydration.

 

[dim_]

So they ban something that has compelling legitimate uses in the sport but are banning it because it also has illegitimate uses? So fans get fights where people gas sooner so USADA can decide who to crack down on and who to go easy on?

What a mess. USADA offers nothing worthwhile to MMA.

they are prohibiting a specific method, they are not prohibiting re-hydration.

there are non-prohibited methods for re-hydrating, and there is no evidence that the prohibited method is any more effective than the non-prohibited method

there are countless studies showing that oral re-hydration is equally as effective.



there is certainly not "compelling" evidence that IV's have their place in sport. (bear in mind you can still have an iv totally legally in the case of medical emergancy etc)

 

[dim_]

Is dehp bad for us? I know bpa is bad. But I do drink from bpa free plastic quite often

well studies on animals have shown dehp has damaged the liver, kidneys, lungs and other internal organs as well as reproductive organs, but we are talking dehp well beyond what anyone would ever absorb from drinking from bottles, eating sandwiches etc. They were feeding rats dehp in large amounts.

its potentially more of a risk with iv's because you are introducing dehp directly into the bloodstream, but still minimal.

as far as UK government goes, they determined that there was inconclusive or inconstitent evidence that it presented any risk, but most manufacturers have started moving to DEHP free anyway

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...al-devices/dehp-phthalates-in-medical-devices

but the amounts you would ingest from drinking bottles etc, theres no evidence that it would have any long term effects.



to give an idea of how widespread use is of DEHP and other Phthalates and how frequently we come into contact with them.. from wikipedia

Phthalates are used in a large variety of products, from enteric coatings of pharmaceutical pills and nutritional supplements to viscosity control agents, gelling agents, film formers, stabilizers, dispersants, lubricants, binders, emulsifying agents, and suspending agents. End-applications include adhesives and glues, agricultural adjuvants, building materials, personal-care products, medical devices, detergents and surfactants, packaging, children's toys, modelling clay, waxes, paints, printing inks and coatings, pharmaceuticals, food products, and textiles. Phthalates are also frequently used in soft plastic fishing lures, caulk, paint pigments, and sex toys made of so-called "jelly rubber". Phthalates are used in a variety of household applications such as shower curtains, vinyl upholstery, adhesives, floor tiles, food containers and wrappers, and cleaning materials. Personal-care items containing phthalates include perfume, eye shadow, moisturizer, nail polish, liquid soap, and hair sprays

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

they are prohibiting a specific method, they are not prohibiting re-hydration.

there are non-prohibited methods for re-hydrating, and there is no evidence that the prohibited method is any more effective than the non-prohibited method

there are countless studies showing that oral re-hydration is equally as effective.



there is certainly not "compelling" evidence that IV's have their place in sport. (bear in mind you can still have an iv totally legally in the case of medical emergancy etc)

They are prohibiting a preferred and effective method of rehydration, and since the ban we've had much more trouble with fighters missing weight.

USADA is corrupt and ineffective, and the sooner the UFC is done with them the better off the sport will be.

 

[koquerelle]

I added this, something i wrote a while back which explains what the test was, and why it was scrapped in a bit more dettail

https://taintedsupplements.wordpress.com/2017/06/27/whatever-happened-to-the-the-plasticizer-test/

Very interesting. Thanks.

 

[NoSmilez]

You can still use a drip up to 100 ml?

 

[Alpha_T83]

The IV allows for massive overnight rehydration gains. I once cut weight with a fellow competitor where he made 205lbs. He popped 2 IV bags and we out to eat that night after weigh ins and he put 25lbs back before sleep. He got back up to 235 the next day to compete. Ive only used water and have gained as much as 13-14lbs overnight.

They need to keep the IV ban and enforce if possible.

Exactly. It's an unfair advantage that basically requires everyone to use it, assuming it's allowed.

They should be doing thorough physical examinations on every fighter using various light sources 6-8 hours after the weigh-in, and again once or twice more on fight day -- looking for injection marks. Anyone with an IV injection mark gets suspended.

And it should count as a full-on anabolic steroid PED violation, getting caught with an IV. 2 years first offense, 4 years second offense, etc.

 

[Alpha_T83]

when did they catch costa with IV usage?

seems like never

They didn't catch him, but someone posted a video of him using an IV illegally for one of his UFC fights.

The funny thing is they didn't even punish him for it.

I was more referring to the Lochte case -- and my main point is that without video evidence, we wouldn't even know about this. Thus, how many more athletes are getting away with IV usage, and not posting videos online?

Essentially, USADA's enforcement of the IV ban is pathetic, and borderline criminally incompetent.

 

[savemgs]

there is zero evidence of this. there are countless studies that show that oral rehydration is just as effective as iv rehydration.

Yeah that's completely insane

 

[ClosetVitorFan]

well studies on animals have shown dehp has damaged the liver, kidneys, lungs and other internal organs as well as reproductive organs, but we are talking dehp well beyond what anyone would ever absorb from drinking from bottles, eating sandwiches etc. They were feeding rats dehp in large amounts.

its potentially more of a risk with iv's because you are introducing dehp directly into the bloodstream, but still minimal.

as far as UK government goes, they determined that there was inconclusive or inconstitent evidence that it presented any risk, but most manufacturers have started moving to DEHP free anyway

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...al-devices/dehp-phthalates-in-medical-devices

but the amounts you would ingest from drinking bottles etc, theres no evidence that it would have any long term effects.



to give an idea of how widespread use is of DEHP and other Phthalates and how frequently we come into contact with them.. from wikipedia

Phthalates are used in a large variety of products, from enteric coatings of pharmaceutical pills and nutritional supplements to viscosity control agents, gelling agents, film formers, stabilizers, dispersants, lubricants, binders, emulsifying agents, and suspending agents. End-applications include adhesives and glues, agricultural adjuvants, building materials, personal-care products, medical devices, detergents and surfactants, packaging, children's toys, modelling clay, waxes, paints, printing inks and coatings, pharmaceuticals, food products, and textiles. Phthalates are also frequently used in soft plastic fishing lures, caulk, paint pigments, and sex toys made of so-called "jelly rubber". Phthalates are used in a variety of household applications such as shower curtains, vinyl upholstery, adhesives, floor tiles, food containers and wrappers, and cleaning materials. Personal-care items containing phthalates include perfume, eye shadow, moisturizer, nail polish, liquid soap, and hair sprays

This doesn't put my mind at ease but thank you.

 

[dim_]

They are prohibiting a preferred and effective method of rehydration, and since the ban we've had much more trouble with fighters missing weight.

USADA is corrupt and ineffective, and the sooner the UFC is done with them the better off the sport will be.

Why would the iv ban effect fighters making weight?

Ps. The number of fighters missing weight following the introduction of iv restrictions was HALF of what it was in the preceding months.

So no, statistically the number of fighters missing weight actually dropped.

The increase in fighters missing weight is a result of a) early weigh ins and b) ufc being more proactive in stopping cuts

 

[AWilder]

USADA is a spook

 

[dim_]

They are prohibiting a preferred and effective method of rehydration, and since the ban we've had much more trouble with fighters missing weight.

USADA is corrupt and ineffective, and the sooner the UFC is done with them the better off the sport will be.

Here we go, a chart of weight misses.

As you can see, 8 months following iv restrictions weight misses actually dropped compared to prior 8 months

So no, the statistics are completely opposite to your claim

(we only have that sixteen month period to do a direct comparison of because the introduction of early weigh ins obviously changes things)