Social US children fall further behind in reading, make little improvement in math on national exam

[PEB]

Who cares AI takes over our future.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

First, an exceptionally stupid part of the country will object to a "liberal arts" education just because it has "liberal arts" in the title.

Second, an exceptionally short-sighted part of the country will object to it because it's not driven by an emphasis on STEM subjects. The trivium itself is just grammar, logic and rhetoric. There is math in it of course but many Americans think we need more STEM emphasis, not less.

Third, it's extremely difficult to measure through traditional standardized testing methods. And there is a large part of the country that wants measurable education goals.

Essentially, a classical liberal arts education isn't about job readiness and, right now, a lot of Americans want education to be something that helps you get a job.

Thanks for explaining a classical education to me, I never heard about it at the university where I got a degree in history lmao

I think you're misunderstanding what the poster you were responding to means when he says the 'Prussian system' which wasn't designed to create workers. It was designed to create soldiers who didn't question orders.

 

[AtomicPanther]

Parents need to stop thinking of school as daycare, and somehow get across to their kids that education is important. We need to get kids out of thinking school is just something they're forced to to. And then make higher education more affordable. Education shouldn't be big business.

There was an animated movie when my son was little we watched, don't remember the name. Basically all the humans rode around on hover scooters, because the AI bots did all the work. Hard not to see us headed there.

 

[AtomicPanther]

Who cares AI takes over our future.

View attachment 1081066

I think that's the movie.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Here's a decent video about the Prussian system if you're interested.

 

[Sweater of AV]

A devolving education system and restricting immigration of talented individuals while continuing to expect growth and prosperity.

What could go wrong?

 

[650lb Sumo]

In the same way that once the calculator became widespread, you didn't really need to be able to do maths any more (most people in most contexts), with AI you won't really need to be able to do geography or art or whatever any more. Just give the AI the correct instructions.

 

[panamaican]

Thanks for explaining a classical education to me, I never heard about it at the university where I got a degree in history lmao

I think you're misunderstanding what the poster you were responding to means when he says the 'Prussian system' which wasn't designed to create workers. It was designed to create soldiers who didn't question orders.

I understood him just fine.

What he said and I responded to was: "Need to go back to the Western canon and the trivium."

And my response was essentially "good luck" getting Americans to return to that. It's possible that you missed that part of his post and stopped reading at his references to the Prussian model.

 

[randomg1t]

I think it would be a good idea for educational leaders to visit and see how countries complete there schooling where it is effective. There is nothing wrong with adapting the American system - we can learn lessons from schools all over the world.

i don't think americans would like the answer to that.

far too marxist.

 

[panamaican]

In the same way that once the calculator became widespread, you didn't really need to be able to do maths any more (most people in most contexts), with AI you won't really need to be able to do geography or art or whatever any more. Just give the AI the correct instructions.

That's the thing with modern education. With the introduction of the computer and coding and similar professions, education shifted to finding people smart enough to the logic based reasoning necessary to excel in those fields. It led to a de-emphasis on the cultivation of the creative side of education.

We see it all of time, so many smart kids dislike the liberal arts subjects in elementary school and high school because they don't have "right" answers. The subjects feel arbitrary compared to the concrete outcomes of a math or science class.

But, as you note, AI and modern technology have become better at brute force calculation and rules based reasoning that we will ever be. Shifting the real area for human education back to the critical thinking and creative side of things. Can we think through abstract problems, hold multiple perspectives in our mind at once and reason through them without dogmatic thought?

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Hey I know, kets disband all public education and privatize it entirely! Let's also not subject any private institutions to standardization or performance assessment. Oh and we'll funnel public money to religious schools. That will fix everything! Well, for rich kids, but that's cool, too.

- You guys arent subject to standarts?

 

[LeonardoBjj]

These two are it.

There is an astounding level of apathy among kids these days. Absolutely everything bores them to tears. It's not that 30 years ago kids were dying to learn precal and chemistry but they at least accepted that that's what you were in school for and just buckled down and did it.

Nowadays, smartphones have them so hooked that it's an escape from learning. Before, school kinda "trapped" them into learning because they had no other choice, but now they can just be on their phones or laptops all day. Even more so once they get home. Before, you had to wait a while until your favorite TV shows came on. Now, they're on and available 24/7 so why bother with homework when you can be on YouTube all night?

On top of that, their attention spans have been pulverized by smartphones.

- My nephew wanted a video-game. When he got one, he cond't play.
Kid cond't solve those puzzles commons in plataform games.
Was frustating, he only plays those weird shooting cellphone games.

 

[Spam On Rye]

The classical Western liberal arts education. Good luck getting modern Americans to sign on to it. Maybe if they rebrand it.

Agreed. There's no getting away from 15 sec videos and 280 characters max lim at this point.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

The Asian and white students in the country are still doing well. Their scores havent changed at all.

- Brazil scores are going down also. Kids are getting dumber as the minutes go by.

I guess the asian kids depend of the generation they're in. You guys will dumber them also.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Regarding the first point I would guess it could have more of an effect on developing brains than adults.

I don't have a counter point to the second one though.

- It's affects more developing brins. tHat's why is unffair to point people of a contrie of subnutrition and point their IQ's.

 

[panamaican]

These two are it.

There is an astounding level of apathy among kids these days. Absolutely everything bores them to tears. It's not that 30 years ago kids were dying to learn precal and chemistry but they at least accepted that that's what you were in school for and just buckled down and did it.

Nowadays, smartphones have them so hooked that it's an escape from learning. Before, school kinda "trapped" them into learning because they had no other choice, but now they can just be on their phones or laptops all day. Even more so once they get home. Before, you had to wait a while until your favorite TV shows came on. Now, they're on and available 24/7 so why bother with homework when you can be on YouTube all night?

On top of that, their attention spans have been pulverized by smartphones.

People say that but I think that's a bit of a cop out.

Kids are apathetic to school because it is pointless. Let me flesh that out. What possible use is there for the modern high school education? Go to college? Okay but that just means the high school education didn't matter for it's own merit. It only mattered to get you to the place where education will matter - college. Or you go to the trades -- which again isn't based on your high school education.

If we don't want apathy then high school has to have intrinsic value and, right now, it doesn't.

Personally, I've been saying for years that we need to completely revamp high school so that kids leave high school ready to contribute to society. College or trade school really shouldn't be necessary for anyone who finishes high school.

 

[panamaican]

Agreed. There's no getting away from 15 sec videos and 280 characters max lim at this point.

That won't be the problem.

Look at how many people call modern liberal arts subjects in college "indoctrination". You really think those parents will be able to handle an entire school system based on there not being a right answer and kids being graded on the quality of their reasoning, instead of their conclusions? The moment a teacher points out the poor reasoning of a student's position and questions how that position was reached, every parent who shares that viewpoint will immediately call for the teacher to be fired.

 

[650lb Sumo]

People say that but I think that's a bit of a cop out.

Kids are apathetic to school because it is pointless. Let me flesh that out. What possible use is there for the modern high school education? Go to college? Okay but that just means the high school education didn't matter for it's own merit. It only mattered to get you to the place where education will matter - college. Or you go to the trades -- which again isn't based on your high school education.

If we don't want apathy then high school has to have intrinsic value and, right now, it doesn't.

Personally, I've been saying for years that we need to completely revamp high school so that kids leave high school ready to contribute to society. College or trade school really shouldn't be necessary for anyone who finishes high school.

I spent many hours in school learning how to calculate unknown angles of triangles, solve quadratic equations, finding out how oxbow lakes are formed and how many electrons orbit around various nuclei etc. And although some of it was interesting, I have never needed that information. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 30 minutes of learning how to jack up a vehicle and change the wheel, or solder, was worth more than 100 hours of that stuff.

 

[Cole train]

- Brazil scores are going down also. Kids are getting dumber as the minutes go by.

I guess the asian kids depend of the generation they're in. You guys will dumber them also.

Here kids are dumber as well according to atats

Reddit teacher section says zero problem solving skills and focus, ours say same

On other hand they are a lot nicer as in you wont be bullied for having glasses, being gay or for being part of sub culture etc

 

[panamaican]

I spent many hours in school learning how to calculatre unknown angles of triangles, solve quadratic equations, finding out how oxbow lakes are formed and how many electrons orbit around various molecules etc. And although some of it was interesting, I have never needed that information. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 30 minutes of learning how to jack up a vehicle and change the wheel, or solder, was worth more than 100 hours of that stuff.

I completely agree with that. Kids aren't stupid. They know that most of this stuff is useless except to help them get into college. And a lot of them know they aren't going to college or, at least, not to a college where this stuff matters.