Unlicensed “Security Guard” Shoots and Kills a Man at protests In Denver

[ultramanhyata]

I'm sure if Rosenbaum had maced Rittenhouse (instead of throwing an empty plastic bag at him) all the right-wing'ers condemning the security guard here would be calling Rittenhouse a murderer. Because they're so consistent and non-tribal in their definitions of what justifies lethal, defensive force.

 

[thehighking]

I do like how posts like this don't seem to notice the cloud of mace. So many saying he shot him for a slap... Seems to be skipping an important step in the escalation.

Not saying mace = death sentence but it's very dishonest to leave that part out. He maced a guy pointing his weapon at him. If the victim was Antifa you would 110% be saying fuck around and find out, play stupid games win stupid prizes, don't bring mace to a gun fight, etc.

To be fair Antifa are horrible people so that's understandable. But ya this was just idiotic escalation by both involved. This is what happens when you can't control your aggression. Democracy is supposed to be where everyone is allowed an opinion and then everyone goes with the majority opinion. You can't fight someone just because they have a different opinion than you.

 

[Clifford_Harris]

Wasn't there a similar incident recently in which a man maced another man and was shot during a protest? Can anybody link to that thread? I'm interested to see what that situation was.

I think you're talking about the one that happened in Portland when the Patriot Prayer guy was shot but the antifa security guard.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-in-portland-death-celebrated-by-blm.4130507/

 

[ultramanhyata]

I still think it's murder, at least on a moral level, because I'm not in favor of the death sentence in a situation like this.

If the shooter were a Proud Boy or Patriot Prayer guy all the right-wingers in this thread would be making the argument that mace is just the beginning...

How do you know that the mace isn't just being used to blind and incapacitate you so that the macer can then attack you with intent to kill? Possibly stab you to death or strangle you? You don't. That's why lethal force is the only responsible option.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

I'm sure if Rosenbaum had maced Rittenhouse (instead of throwing an empty plastic bag at him) all the right-wing'ers condemning the security guard here would be calling Rittenhouse a murderer. Because they're so consistent and non-tribal in their definitions of what justifies lethal, defensive force.

If you are going to use that example then you must think it is comparable.
If it is comparable then you must acknowledge that Rittenhouse was in a more severe and justifiable situation of the two.
Yet you only support Dollof's scenario, by far the weaker of the two scenarios you find comparable as justafiable.

You're only condemning yourself.

 

[ultramanhyata]

If you are going to use that example then you must think it is comparable.
If it is comparable then you must acknowledge that Rittenhouse was in a more severe situation of the two.
Yet you only support Dollof's scenario, the much weaker of the two scenarios you find comparable.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I do not think lethal force is justified in response to mace. Particularly at that distance and in that public setting.

Mace is categorized as "non-lethal force" by law enforcement for a reason.

Note: I could see a scenario where mace is being continually sprayed in the face of someone already writhing on the ground causing them to feel like they are drowning/suffocating. If such a victim pulled a gun and fired on their attacker I could see it as justified.

 

[OaklandIsMyCity]

Hey it is what it is.

 

[Seso]

Can't wait to see the Antifa retard in jail. Getting fucked by nazis, bloods and crips lol.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I do not think lethal force is justified in response to mace. Particularly at that distance and in that public setting.

Mace is categorized as "non-lethal force" by law enforcement for a reason.

Note: I could see a scenario where mace is being continually sprayed in the face of someone already writhing on the ground causing them to feel like they are drowning/suffocating. If such a victim pulled a gun and fired on their attacker I could see it as justified.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up a little.

As for Rittenhouse, he was knocked over and swarmed by several shouting "get him" and jumpkicked by a guy wearing the word "PARAMEDIC" on it who pulled a handgun on him a second later. When you're knocked down and swarmed, you can't retreat. Kyle R. never was confrontational, he was retreating from the beginning and they knocked him down and prevented his retreat. The crowd escalated against him and he had no way out.

Nevermind the bag, that's a strawman if there ever was one.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up a little.

As for Rittenhouse, he was knocked over and swarmed by several shouting "get him" and jumpkicked by a guy wearing the word "PARAMEDIC" on it who pulled a handgun on him a second later.

None of this was the case with the first guy he shot. That guy was unarmed. It was only after Rittenhouse murdered his first victim that people panicked and his next two victims attempted to stop and disarm him. You need to get your facts straight.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

None of this was the case with the first guy he shot. That guy was unarmed. It was only after Rittenhouse murdered his first victim that people panicked and his next two victims attempted to stop and disarm him. You need to get your facts straight.

He didn't fire until he was attacked from behind, knocked down and advanced upon. Or did he fire behind him first while running the opposite direction?

He was clearly attacked while evading, knocked down and swarmed by several first.

 

[oldshadow]

It hard to judge.

The guy who with the pepper spray was an idiot.

We will see what if any charges there are.

If the guy with the spray was advancing the it may be a justified shooting. If he was backing away then it was not most likely.

 

[ultramanhyata]

He didn't fire until he was attacked from behind, knocked down and advanced upon. Or did he fire behind him first while running the opposite direction?

Just admit you didn't know WTF you were talking about.

 

[WalkenWouldOwn]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up a little.

As for Rittenhouse, he was knocked over and swarmed by several shouting "get him" and jumpkicked by a guy wearing the word "PARAMEDIC" on it who pulled a handgun on him a second later. When you're knocked down and swarmed, you can't retreat. Kyle R. never was confrontational, he was retreating from the beginning and they knocked him down and prevented his retreat. The crowd escalated against him and he had no way out.

Nevermind the bag, that's a strawman if there ever was one.

You are either being dishonest or you don't know the details. The crowd swarming only happened AFTER the first shooting. Only the first shooting was discussed where according to all evidence I have seen, it was 1 on 1... Kyle with his rifle vs midget with his bag. Midget was being the aggressor but did not have a weapon.

If he was in fear for his life from the 5 foot 1 guy charging him, ok then. Doesn't seem crazy then for a guy getting bear sprayed in the face to feel the same though.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

It hard to judge.

The guy who with the pepper spray was an idiot.

We will see what if any charges there are.

If the guy with the spray was advancing the it may be a justified shooting. If he was backing away then it was not most likely.

sequence is like this
they get into a scuffle (don't know why, a theory was that shooter wanted to grab dead guy's mace)
dead guy pushes/slaps shooter then backs away
when about 4 yards away he reaches for mace
at the same time shooter raises his arm with the gun
dead guy keeps moving back, now about 5 yards away, and sprays in the direction of shooter
shooter shots him in the face basically at the same time as mace is being sprayed
dead guy proper dead
3 seconds later shooter is arrested, police was like 10 yards away.

 

[Mr Holmes]

I'm sure if Rosenbaum had maced Rittenhouse (instead of throwing an empty plastic bag at him) all the right-wing'ers condemning the security guard here would be calling Rittenhouse a murderer. Because they're so consistent and non-tribal in their definitions of what justifies lethal, defensive force.

Was the security guard was sprinting away while the maga guy chased after him? If not, then yes, there is consistency with definitions of what justifies lethal, defensive force.

 

[WalkenWouldOwn]

Can't wait to see the Antifa retard in jail. Getting fucked by nazis, bloods and crips lol.

You're probably someone who still goes around telling people Kyle was attacked by a molotov cocktail. No matter how many facts come out you will choose whatever deranged fake narrative youtube tells you.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Was the security guard was sprinting away while the maga guy chased after him? If not, then yes, there is consistency with definitions of what justifies lethal, defensive force.

So you think being physically chased, in and of itself, is a greater justification for lethal force than being shot in the face with mace?

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

You are either being dishonest or you don't know the details. The crowd swarming only happened AFTER the first shooting. Only the first shooting was discussed where according to all evidence I have seen, it was 1 on 1... Kyle with his rifle vs midget with his bag. Midget was being the aggressor but did not have a weapon.

If he was in fear for his life from the 5 foot 1 guy charging him, ok then. Doesn't seem crazy then for a guy getting bear sprayed in the face to feel the same though.

I rewatched the footage, the first part I hadn't seen before with Rosenbaum the molester who was chasing him. In this case he was trying to evade but Rosenbaum was pursuing him and would not let him evade. They also appear to be roughly the same height, as if that would matter. Rosenbaum appears to weigh more, anyhow.

If you deny someone the ability to evade while you swarm them (in a riot no less), then all your innocence (whatever remaining innocence a serial molester has) goes out the window. A person is allowed to defend themselves from a rapist, regardless if the rapist has weapons (how would you know until it's too late anyway)

 

[ultramanhyata]

sequence is like this
they get into a scuffle (don't know why, a theory was that shooter wanted to grab dead guy's mace)
dead guy pushes/slaps shooter then backs away
when about 4 yards away he reaches for mace
at the same time shooter raises his arm with the gun
dead guy keeps moving back, now about 5 yards away, and sprays in the direction of shooter
shooter shots him in the face basically at the same time as mace is being sprayed
dead guy proper dead
3 seconds later shooter is arrested, police was like 10 yards away.

If this is really how it went down it's first degree murder, plain and simple.

And I will say the same even if it turns out the murdered guy was a convicted phile.