UFC Tier System

[JoeRoganade]

I was listening to a Luke Thomas Podcast (Yea yea I know, inb4BetaCuck, ugotB3T4'D, etc...), and he was discussing the predicament that's going on in some of the divisions, most notably WW and LW, where you have a bunch of guys in the top 15 who have no scheduled fights (when healthy ofc). That being because there's a common theme of guys not wanting to fight lower ranked opponents once they get to the top. 3 doesn't want to fight 4 doesn't want to fight 5, and so on and so on.

So the fear is that if this continues, the UFC will start to turn into Boxing where the rankings are causing guys to over-stress about risk management rather than being active and building on their career. From a fighters perspective, it makes sense because the UFC gives you zero incentive to fight lower ranked opponents, and theres always far more of a risk than there is reward.

So instead of a linear numbered ranking system, what about having a certain about of fighters in a different tier class based on where they are in their careers, and the types of guys they will most likely be competing against? Separate each division into 5 tiers.

Tier 5 - The new comers who are early in their careers, or guys that are far past their prime and still hanging on or on the cusp of retirement.

Tier 4 - Guys that are on losing streaks and are about to be cut, guys that have been out for a long time and are just getting back into the fold

Tier 3 - High level prospects, The veteran gatekeepers of a weight class who probably will never challenge for a title.

Tier 2 - Guys that are on the cusp of achieving top contender status

Tier 1 - The Elite fighters and top contenders of a weight class

Edit: The tier rankings would PRIMARILY be skill based just like the regular rankings. This is just an outline as to where guys are based on where they're at in their careers.

There wouldn't have to be an exact set amount of guys in each tier in a respective weight class, so it's flexible based on where guys in their class are in relative to the division, as opposed to having a linear system that doesn't accurately represent the make-up of the division. So for example, in a stacked division like LW, you can have 10 or even 15 guys in Tier 1, whereas in LHW, you could have maybe 2 or 3 guys in tier 1. This also eliminates guys not fighting a lower ranked guy who may be dangerous, because he'll be in the same tier and a win of the guy will be beneficial for him. Someone may also skip tiers if their win is dominant enough.

Also, they could have incentives (Monetary perhaps) for guys to fight someone in a lower tier. Perhaps they'll get a certain increase in pay whether they win of lose the fight.



tldr: Replace the Linear ranking system with a more flexible Tier system so guys in the same tier don't have excuses not to fight someone because they're ranked below them. It may prevent divisions stalling from too many guys wanting to protect their careers.


Should the UFC go to this instead of rankings?

As if your tier system means anything in the REAL world.

 

[johnmangala]

Losing to someone in another tier would switch you between the tiers.

So that unlike now even if you beat someone higher ranked than you, you would rise higher than them.

The rankings shouldn't be about lifetime achievements, just the current standing.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I was listening to a Luke Thomas Podcast (Yea yea I know, inb4BetaCuck, ugotB3T4'D, etc...), and he was discussing the predicament that's going on in some of the divisions, most notably WW and LW, where you have a bunch of guys in the top 15 who have no scheduled fights (when healthy ofc). That being because there's a common theme of guys not wanting to fight lower ranked opponents once they get to the top. 3 doesn't want to fight 4 doesn't want to fight 5, and so on and so on.

So the fear is that if this continues, the UFC will start to turn into Boxing where the rankings are causing guys to over-stress about risk management rather than being active and building on their career. From a fighters perspective, it makes sense because the UFC gives you zero incentive to fight lower ranked opponents, and theres always far more of a risk than there is reward.

So instead of a linear numbered ranking system, what about having a certain about of fighters in a different tier class based on where they are in their careers, and the types of guys they will most likely be competing against? Separate each division into 5 tiers.

Tier 5 - The new comers who are early in their careers, or guys that are far past their prime and still hanging on or on the cusp of retirement.

Tier 4 - Guys that are on losing streaks and are about to be cut, guys that have been out for a long time and are just getting back into the fold

Tier 3 - High level prospects, The veteran gatekeepers of a weight class who probably will never challenge for a title.

Tier 2 - Guys that are on the cusp of achieving top contender status

Tier 1 - The Elite fighters and top contenders of a weight class

Edit: The tier rankings would PRIMARILY be skill based just like the regular rankings. This is just an outline as to where guys are based on where they're at in their careers.

There wouldn't have to be an exact set amount of guys in each tier in a respective weight class, so it's flexible based on where guys in their class are in relative to the division, as opposed to having a linear system that doesn't accurately represent the make-up of the division. So for example, in a stacked division like LW, you can have 10 or even 15 guys in Tier 1, whereas in LHW, you could have maybe 2 or 3 guys in tier 1. This also eliminates guys not fighting a lower ranked guy who may be dangerous, because he'll be in the same tier and a win of the guy will be beneficial for him. Someone may also skip tiers if their win is dominant enough.

Also, they could have incentives (Monetary perhaps) for guys to fight someone in a lower tier. Perhaps they'll get a certain increase in pay whether they win of lose the fight.



tldr: Replace the Linear ranking system with a more flexible Tier system so guys in the same tier don't have excuses not to fight someone because they're ranked below them. It may prevent divisions stalling from too many guys wanting to protect their careers.


Should the UFC go to this instead of rankings?

Generally speaking I like this idea and think the UFC has long used it, at least in the Zuffa days. This is why guys with poor recent records or coming off of losses could get title shots, like Frankie Edgar or Nick Diaz. Their loss didn't push them out of the top tier.

That said, at least one minor problem is immediately apparent in your description of tier five. There's a lot of demand from fans to see guys who are names but past their prime. Likewise, there's plenty of demand to fight guys on their way down from up and comers. Putting the Belfort's of the MMA world into that category just won't work well imo. They still headline cards and sell tickets and draw challenges form higher tier fighters.

 

[johncola]

I was listening to a Luke Thomas Podcast (Yea yea I know, inb4BetaCuck, ugotB3T4'D, etc...), and he was discussing the predicament that's going on in some of the divisions, most notably WW and LW, where you have a bunch of guys in the top 15 who have no scheduled fights (when healthy ofc). That being because there's a common theme of guys not wanting to fight lower ranked opponents once they get to the top. 3 doesn't want to fight 4 doesn't want to fight 5, and so on and so on.

So the fear is that if this continues, the UFC will start to turn into Boxing where the rankings are causing guys to over-stress about risk management rather than being active and building on their career. From a fighters perspective, it makes sense because the UFC gives you zero incentive to fight lower ranked opponents, and theres always far more of a risk than there is reward.

So instead of a linear numbered ranking system, what about having a certain about of fighters in a different tier class based on where they are in their careers, and the types of guys they will most likely be competing against? Separate each division into 5 tiers.

Tier 5 - The new comers who are early in their careers, or guys that are far past their prime and still hanging on or on the cusp of retirement.

Tier 4 - Guys that are on losing streaks and are about to be cut, guys that have been out for a long time and are just getting back into the fold

Tier 3 - High level prospects, The veteran gatekeepers of a weight class who probably will never challenge for a title.

Tier 2 - Guys that are on the cusp of achieving top contender status

Tier 1 - The Elite fighters and top contenders of a weight class

Edit: The tier rankings would PRIMARILY be skill based just like the regular rankings. This is just an outline as to where guys are based on where they're at in their careers.

There wouldn't have to be an exact set amount of guys in each tier in a respective weight class, so it's flexible based on where guys in their class are in relative to the division, as opposed to having a linear system that doesn't accurately represent the make-up of the division. So for example, in a stacked division like LW, you can have 10 or even 15 guys in Tier 1, whereas in LHW, you could have maybe 2 or 3 guys in tier 1. This also eliminates guys not fighting a lower ranked guy who may be dangerous, because he'll be in the same tier and a win of the guy will be beneficial for him. Someone may also skip tiers if their win is dominant enough.

Also, they could have incentives (Monetary perhaps) for guys to fight someone in a lower tier. Perhaps they'll get a certain increase in pay whether they win of lose the fight.



tldr: Replace the Linear ranking system with a more flexible Tier system so guys in the same tier don't have excuses not to fight someone because they're ranked below them. It may prevent divisions stalling from too many guys wanting to protect their careers.


Should the UFC go to this instead of rankings?

I've had this idea too. I really like it.

It'd get rid of problems such as James Vick not being able to get a ranked opponent.

 

[johncola]

Generally speaking I like this idea and think the UFC has long used it, at least in the Zuffa days. This is why guys with poor recent records or coming off of losses could get title shots, like Frankie Edgar or Nick Diaz. Their loss didn't push them out of the top tier.

That said, at least one minor problem is immediately apparent in your description of tier five. There's a lot of demand from fans to see guys who are names but past their prime. Likewise, there's plenty of demand to fight guys on their way down from up and comers. Putting the Belfort's of the MMA world into that category just won't work well imo. They still headline cards and sell tickets and draw challenges form higher tier fighters.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the problem in the scenario you describe.

 

[johncola]

They already have that. It’s called 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 and everyone else.

No they don't. 1 =/= 5. 5 is certainly not closer to 1 than it is 6. And "everyone else" is too big a category.

 

[johncola]

How so? Like I said, this is more flexible than rankings, so if the UFC feels like that match up would be competitve, they could just put them in the same tier, or maybe one apart.

Fighters' tiers should still be determined by media, like rankings are at the moment.

UFC should be free to make any matchup they want though, as they do now.

 

[Khabib Fan]

Good on the fighters. They're learning.

 

[Boomslang]

They could put a clause in the fighters’ contracts saying they will fight who ever the UFC decides.

 

[johncola]

They could put a clause in the fighters’ contracts saying they will fight who ever the UFC decides.

A tad illegal.

 

[bufetadanacara]

I'd much rather just have tournaments.

Randomly seeded, no choosing nor complaining about who your opponent is.

And the best part, the fight date is scheduled and there's no changing it, you show up that day and fight or you don't get paid.

 

[myjohnson9]

Like I said before, Lee could be considered tier 1 since LW is so deep and there's not much difference in skill level of guys in the top 10.
GSP can be put immediately in tier 1 since he's a former long running champion. BisPing was constantly on the cusp of getting title shots what he got a shot against Luke, so he would at least be in the first or second tier.

The definitions I put for the different tiers wouldn't be set in stone ofc. Any type of fighter could be put in any tier. It's mostly based on skill level, where they're at in the division, or where the UFC wants them.

The only downside with this I'm is finding injury replacements. This isn't a perfect system, but I feel it would be better than the rankings as far as getting guys to fight each other.

Not sure how this changes much at all. You’re still gonna get guys who don’t want to fight the tier beneath them. But even worse it’s more subjective than a rankings system. So guys will be like so and so is only in my tier because hype/ ufc trying to push them(not skill) so they’ll have the same reasons to decline the fight

 

[DLX]

i agree that this is a problem. i disagree with your solution.

instead, we need to incentivize contenders fighting contenders more. and i think flattening the pay structure is better. let me explain.

a #5 in a division making $40k/$40k has 4 choices:

1) fight a lower tiered, less dangerous opponent for $40k/$40k,
2) fight a very dangerous #2 or #3 for $40k/$40k,
3) hold out for more money to fight another contender, or
4) hold out for a title shot, and though they'll still only get $40k/$40k, they know a substantial pay increase is next if they win.

we want guys to do #2, but more and more they're doing #1 or #4. how do we get guys to do #2? pay contenders to fight contenders more.

but today the pay structure is just a modified tournament theory economic model. a very few make huge $ and most make peanuts. modified, because there is now a small middle class making 6 figures.

so increase the middle class of pay. if the choice is $40k/$40k or hold out for 7 figures, guys will continue to hold out. but if the choice was $40k/$40k to fight lower tier, $200k/$200k to fight a #2 contender, or hold out for 7 figures, a lot more guys would be more willing to put their career on the line to fight the #2.

and i call it 'flattening' because in order to pay for it they'd probably give champs and/or big money fighters less points.

I like your idea because it's very beneficial for the fighters. However, if we're thinking realistically to how the UFC is currently operating, a system like that will cause a lot of fighters to want to fighter the higher ranked guy for more money. Which is good for the fighters and the fans. It also benefits the UFC as far has having more hype to their product. However, will the hype it generates cover the extra cost of putting that many high level fights together? It's possible, but risky. You also gotta factor in injury pull outs, and how that effects the product. But tbh, I think with your idea the stakes are so high, more guys may be willing to fight a little banged up.

I was thinking more along the lines of this. It may sound backwards at first, but hear me out. Every tier has a different pay structure (obv). However, I think you pay the guy MORE to fight a lesser opponent, because that gives him an incentive to give the other guy an opportunity, and it also benefits the lower ranked guy because more higher tier will be willing to take fights against him. I think it's better to have incentives on both ends, rather than load it more towards fighting a top ranked guy because it creates more balance in the options that a fighter has.

This way, the fighter two options:

Option 1: You can fight a guy in your tier or in a higher tier for base pay. The incentive is that you have more of an opportunity to advance your career, and if you win you may possibly advance to a higher tier where you'll get a pay increase anyways. And if you don't win, you won't have anything to lose.

Option 2: You fight a lesser opponent and get bonus pay. The incentive being, obviously you're getting payed more for an assumed easier fight which is better for the short term. However, this won't advance your career, and there's a risk of losing which may put you in a lower tier where you'll make less.

As much as we want to see top match ups, I think it's also good to see guys get an opportunity to break into top contendership status as well.

 

[fiftywattmafia]

I say a 4 team playoff is fine and then expand to 8 in 2 years.

 

[DLX]

But even worse it’s more subjective than a rankings system. So guys will be like so and so is only in my tier because hype/ ufc trying to push them(not skill) so they’ll have the same reasons to decline the fight

I could see the subjectivity being an being an issue, however a tier 1 is a tier 1 no matter how he got there. A win over them gets the same value as anyone else. They could essentially play the role of the "Hype Killer".

Decent idea, you would have to label the rankings accordingly by tiers.

C-IC: Tier 1

1-5: Tier 2

6-10: Tier 3

10-15: Tier 4

>15: Tier 5

I think keeping rankings defeats the purpose so long as there's a number to their name. They'll completely ignore the tier someones in, and still declined fights based on their numerical ranking.

 

[johnmangala]

I could see the subjectivity being an being an issue, however a tier 1 is a tier 1 no matter how he got there. A win over them gets the same value as anyone else. They could essentially play the role of the "Hype Killer".



I think keeping rankings defeats the purpose so long as there's a number to their name. They'll completely ignore the tier someones in, and still declined fights based on their numerical ranking.

The tiers and numbers represent the same. You are just labeling them.

 

[Captain Tight]

They already have that. It’s called 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 and everyone else.

Literally was thinking the exact same thing lmao

How about the UFC starts making fights or telling fighters to fuck right off